Cathy Meehan: Okay, wow. You guys are in for a treat with my special guest today on the Meehan Mission podcast. This guy is so special that I am reading from a list of his accomplishments. Okay, so see if you can guess who this is. Well, first, he’s the managing partner of Siri and Glimstad, which is a national law firm with over 100 legal professionals. that are handling civil rights, class actions, and complex litigation. He has led litigation to compel federal agencies, FDA, to release vaccine licensure documents related to the COVID-19 vaccines. He’s challenged federal and state medical mandates. He’s restored vaccine exemptions, including for the US military members. He’s deposed leading immunologist, pediatricians, and vaccinologists, and he’s the author of Vaccines, Amen. Not only that, he is regularly interviewed on national television and quoted quite often in print media. And today, he is my special guest. Please welcome Aaron Siri.
Cathy Meehan: Well, hello everyone and welcome to this very special edition of the Meehan Mission podcast. And if you can’t tell, I’m a little emotional. I knew this was going to be hard. My guest, if you can see, is Aaron Siri. And you know, I’ll tell you why it’s emotional because one of my most vivid memories of Jim was when he got his first phone call from you to talk about some projects and what you guys could do to save our babies and help our children. And I just remember that call because he was so excited. And just to think of how far we’ve come and what we’re doing now. okay. Thank you for being my special guest, Aaron Siri. Thank you so, so much. You know, I just, you guys that are the movers and shakers in this fight for medical freedom, you know, you guys are built differently. And what is it, when did you realize, Aaron, that… You were built differently. I mean, from your peers. I mean, you have to have a faith or a courage or a boldness. I mean, or the fight for justice. When did you know you had that in you?
Aaron Siri: I don’t know. I think I take it day by day. But I’ll tell you somebody who I never saw waver and was was an incredible fighter. That was Jim. I will tell you one of the first I’ll say the first time I met Jim. And Jim would be proud of what you’ve continued to do in his memory and legacy was I was invited to a a meeting in Manhattan, I think with a number of folks regarding this issue, regarding medical freedom. And Mary Holland, I think, arranged the meeting, and it was at NYU. And there was a bunch of important folks to influence, let’s put it that way. And I show up. And Jim’s sitting at a table. Never met him before. No idea who he is. Didn’t know he’s a doctor. And this is many years ago. This was like a long time ago. And there were some other doctors there and they started saying some stuff. And Jim just like leaned across the table and gave them a thrashing that I will never forget. I mean, he just unloaded. I remember thinking like, whoa, where did this guy come from? This is incredible. So, I’ll never forget that meeting. In fact, I would say that it’s definitely been part of the inspiration about living your convictions. And Jim talked about that, as you know, and he talked to me about that. You know, my my interaction with him often just the two of us, I don’t know what he said to others often, but, you know, he would say, like, like, you got to do what you believe, you got to live your convictions, only have one life, you know, if you’re gonna not live your convictions, and what kind of life you’re living. I mean, that’s, that’s to sum it up, essentially. So anyway, you know, it
Cathy Meehan: Absolutely.
Aaron Siri: I will also say that it also takes having somebody at your side who also makes sure you’re always doing the right thing too and guided in that way. And I would say that, you know, it’s, and for some, you know, certainly faith is an important part of it. Everybody’s got to be thankful to somebody. Everything didn’t come from nowhere. And then,
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, it really does.
Cathy Meehan: Absolutely.
Aaron Siri: And then also, think, you your spouse, it’s really important. And I will tell you, my wife often is uncompromised in terms of what’s right. And she will, you know, nudge me along. So all of those things help.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, that’s all great. Yeah. Well, you know, mean, Jim and I were a team. I used to always say that he’d go in and, well, I don’t know if I can say this, but I’ll say he’d go in and throw crap everywhere. And then I’d come in with the toilet paper and clean up everything. He was the big voice out there. you know, when I’m just thankful that God has given me resources and a team and people just to carry on what we had started because, we still, we’ve come so far, but we still have so much further to go. And so for some of the people that are listening in my audience and they might not know, I mean, how in the world did you get associated into medical freedom? And I know we don’t have forever. So just give us the brief bio on how you chose this path and why you’re here.
Aaron Siri: Well, not something I ever thought about when I went to Berkeley for law school. Not something I imagined when I clerked for the chief judge of the Supreme Court of Israel for a year after law school. Not something I imagined for the almost six years I worked at one of the premier firms in the country, nor for the first few years I had my own firm. Along that path, I did learn a few things. Particularly one thing I learned was about the 1986 Act. your audience knows all about that, but I won’t go into it, which I was shocked about.
Cathy Meehan: Yes.
Aaron Siri: you know, I, uh, cause I didn’t know much else, but how conflicts of interest work, how corporate that I understood and taking away liability has an incredible influence and how the trials will do post licensure safety, all that stuff. But then it was, um, I would say what really tipped it was, um, the city of New York decided it was going to require the flu shot for children to attend preschool. And my wife asked me if I could challenge that, you know. And because it just seemed like it’s just seem ridiculous. You want to get it, get it. But if you don’t want to get it, you shouldn’t have to get it. You know, a product even, you know, meta reviews have said don’t contribute to community immunity in any event. So I looked at it and I was like, yeah, you know, it’s a separation of powers issue. The health department did it, not the legislature. They shouldn’t be able to do that. You know, let the elected representatives do it if they want to do it. So I told her, I think I could challenge it. And she said, well, then do it. I said, well, I said, well, hold on a second. said, look, you know, I left the big firm. We’ve started a, you know, I started another practice and I was continuing to do commercial litigation. We even had public traded companies that were clients or potential clients. And doing that kind of work was if I struck it down, it’s probably gonna make the news. And that would, you know, and I said, are you sure? She’s like,
Cathy Meehan: Good wife, good.
Cathy Meehan: Are you ready?
Aaron Siri: So I did, I brought the case, I struck it down at the trial court level, and that made national news. that really began a shift. I had done some pro bono cases, and that case was on pro bono too. And then eventually I started doing more and more of that work. It was gratifying.
Cathy Meehan: It’s very gratifying, isn’t it, when you can help and make a difference?
Aaron Siri: Absolutely. Look, there’s no there are no group you can treat the way that they that that that those who choose often for good reason to not receive these products are treated. There’s no group in this country, you could say throw them out of school, throw them out of their jobs. Don’t treat them in the emergency room. They’re selfish. They’re horrible. They’re bad. Who can you talk about like that? Pick a minority ethnic
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm, right.
Aaron Siri: A religious group you can talk about that way in America. Nobody, just this group. And who are they typically? It comprises often of families with children who’ve been injured who now made the often learned decision not to receive more of these products for the kid who’s injured and then the subsequent children because medical science can’t validate it won’t happen again.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, is absolutely criminal on that part. So since you’ve gotten into this, when I knew that I was gonna get to interview you, I was like, there’s so much with Aaron Siri, where do we go? And I definitely wanna touch on your book. But before we get to the book, is there anything that really like stands out that you feel personally was like, that was an aha moment? I’m sure you can’t pick just one. I’m sure you can’t pick just one. But is there anything that really stands out?
Aaron Siri: I would say very early on, part of what, one of the things that stands out for me is that, there’s so much, but that when you talk to medical professionals and you say, look, I’ve got this client, this situation, and you know.
Cathy Meehan: There it is.
Aaron Siri: clear as day the vaccines caused this issue and then they treat the underlying neuro dysregulation issues that arise from the vaccination the kid gets better they just will often look at you incredulously and the response i have literally received is well i believe in vaccines what the heck does that have to do with a case study you know who says that well
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Aaron Siri: Let me tell you something about this radiological equipment. Well, I believe in radiological equipment. Nobody would say that. Nobody would say that to you in response to you pointing out a deficiency or an issue with the product. It’s not the way it works in any other for the you know, that that really does stand out to me and it stands out to me over the course of you know, the last decade of doing this, which is that oftentimes when you confront the vaccine, not medical professionals and others with data. Forget even a case report like I described just straight to you often get Instead of them dealing with intellectually you get an emotional reaction of I believe in vaccines, know What are you trying to say? You know, you’re you’re anti this or that for even raising this fact or this data point
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, it’s a I am you know, one of my moments that stands out is when you deposed Stanley Plotkin. To me, when I saw that, I was like, I was just cheering and I was saying, OK, we got him now. We got him. We got him. And but I think we still face all that censorship and everything else because it’s like, but it’s all of these steps are just to me, it’s it’s now it’s this. These little waves have turned into this tidal wave. And I don’t think there’s any going back. I mean, we have enough consumer awareness and everything on the need for informed consent and everything, which is actually going to kind of go over to your book, which is Vaccines, Amen. And there’s always been lots of books on the medical part of vaccinations and everything. obviously your background going into a legal standpoint of it. Why did you feel that at this time it was really important to raise that awareness to the public?
Aaron Siri: Well, if you want to change what happens in the courthouses and in the legislature, you have to change cultural cognition, right? The view that the general public has on an issue. know, gay marriage was never going to become a constitutionally affirmed right by the Supreme Court in the 1800s or 1910s the 20s. there were changed. The constitution didn’t change. Cultural cognition changed. Okay. And so that is the pre that is the often prerequisite to getting change in those forums.
Cathy Meehan: Mm. Yes.
Aaron Siri: And if you want to secure rights in this area, that’s where you need folks to vote on your side in the legislative houses and the courthouse. And let me put it this way. Judges have thousands of cases each. They’re extraordinarily busy. It’s no knock on any judge that they don’t have, that they’re going to rely on cultural cognition. They could never get through their docket without it. And so, if all they’ve ever heard is safe and effective hurts one in a million. you know, stops transmission like not to be questioned. And that’s a tough thing to work with. It’s hard to get them to really dig in and look. Whereas when the cultural cognition changes, you can get more of them actually engage in that, you know, this doesn’t stop transmission. So, you know, that affects this, whether or not we should require it, not, you know, stuff like that. Same thing in legislative houses, you know, Members of the legislature are also very busy. They got a billion bills coming through. So what they understand makes a difference. And the thing with vaccines is that because of the 86 act, and there’s no pushback in the normal course like you do with any other product, you’re not going to read about a class action lawsuit. How do you hear as a problem with the car? You read about class action lawsuit. What drives it to come and do better? The lawsuit, potential liability. That’s not going to happen. there are these mythologies that have developed around these products because you’ve had basically one sided marketing for 40 years, nonstop safe and effective one in a million saved everybody. Everybody would die. But over the last decade of litigating around these products, most, and I didn’t go into that, this thinking like all vaccines, you know, all that stuff’s not sure. I didn’t know. Well, it’s clear now those are things that everything I just said are beliefs and our facts are contrary to the evidence.
Cathy Meehan: Right.
Aaron Siri: And for us to get to a point in America where we have folks making rational decisions in the courthouses and in the legislatures about these products, people need to stop believing in them and they need to start thinking about them. And to get to that point, the purpose of the book and why I wrote it is not to get somebody to think vaccines are good or bad. Those are religious terms. It’s not to be anti or pro-vaccine. It’s just a product.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Aaron Siri: It’s to get them to think, right? Just to think about it like well, how many lives would it save if we didn’t have the vaccine, right? How many lives did it save because we introduced it? How much harm does it cause like there are actual answers to those questions potentially and we shouldn’t shy away from it. I’ll give one example. Hepatitis B vaccine. In Denmark they don’t give the vaccine to children. Maybe 0.1 % of kids get it.
Cathy Meehan: Yes, we need critical thinkers and yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Aaron Siri: only pretty much give it to the children born to hepatitis B mothers, hepatitis B mothers, okay. Whereas in the US, they give it to almost every kid. Okay, almost, you know, high vaccination rate in America, virtually zero in Denmark. What’s the rate of chronic hep B amongst children in Denmark versus the US? Not statistically significant difference. So, but I’ll tell you what is different. The rate of harm from hep B vaccine injuries in the US versus Denmark, that is significantly different. And so you know, when you look at that, you might, you know, you but you have to stop getting emotional. And that’s the problem, you get emotional because they’re believing in these products. So the point of this of the book was to get people over this cognitive dissonance. And when they see the evidence, the hard evidence, and they go through it, and I try to make it look really fun and go through depositions and so forth.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Aaron Siri: It should get them to able to think about it because it’s an important decision. It’s really important decision. Gone from three injections, a child by the first year of age, if they followed the CDC schedule in 86, to as of the beginning of last year, 29 injections. You should really look under the hood for a second before you go jab your kid with that many shots. Powerful medical products, they tell you, powerful medical products that are going to alter your immune system for life to protect you from something. Before you go get a car for your kid, I’m sure you’re to look at the crash test report.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Aaron Siri: I wish folks would do it with vaccines.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, no, absolutely. It’s, mean, like I said, we’re coming so far and just the fear that parents have and you you just, you’ve got to separate that. But I wanted to go back because talking about the, all of the justices you have and everybody in the legal community, I recall Jim would do expert witness cases often when there was a husband and a wife that had been divorced. So there’s this custody case of like, One wants to vaccinate the other one doesn’t want to vaccinate and he would he would donate his time and everything to you know Present why we should not vaccinate this child risks benefits alternatives everything I mean It’s it’s a slam dunk once you see the data, you know but the judge in two particular cases back-to-back said the CDC website says vaccines are safe and effective. And so in that regards, the other parent won and was allowed to vaccinate their child. But yeah, but it’s that belief. It’s really, it’s belief. And so he stopped doing it. He said, I’m not, and actually what he did was he was like, if you want me to present your case, both parties have to read and he would listen or watch a couple of documentaries. you know, like Vaxxed in 1986 and some of those documentaries. And he was like, because, you know, we’re not going to win in court, you know, now, hopefully that’s going to change and, and things will, because I mean, I just find it’s your approach, which is let’s take the legal avenue. And, and that’s how I think we’re going to win a lot of this is through the legal roads because you can’t get physicians to read some of the data and then believe the data because they’ve already got this belief system. So I think that’s been really good. one of the other things I want to talk about is this idea of informed consent. If you could just kind of like elaborate on legally what is informed consent because
Cathy Meehan: I don’t feel like there’s true informed consent when people take their kids to the pediatrician’s office. Today.
Aaron Siri: Well, from obviously the informed consent is often governed by different states and different states have a bit of a different standard for it. But I’ll just tell you my view of it. In a nutshell, it is you inform the parent of the risks and benefits to whatever degree the doctor does and to whatever degree the parent would like. Some parents might say I don’t I’m good. I don’t even know anything. Go ahead, jab them up. Some parents would say I want to know more. And then at that point,
Cathy Meehan: Okay.
Aaron Siri: there’s the consent part. And that’s where the parent says, yes or no. Now if the parent says no, that means they’ve had informed consent, they’ve been informed, and they’ve chosen not to consent. And at that point, if you then say, okay, you said no, no problem. Now, you’re not allowed to come to the doctor, you’re kicked out of school, go down the list of things. That’s not consent. That is coercion. That is the opposite of informed consent. That’s bullying, thuggery, tyranny. That’s what that is. So if we want to have informed consent, people often focus on, well, how much information are you giving? Yeah, that’s important. But more important, in my view, is the consent part. If they said no, that should be the end of the story. You should not be taking away any of their rights for making that decision.
Cathy Meehan: Right, yeah.
Cathy Meehan: No, I agree wholeheartedly. I always think of my oldest daughter, Allie, when she took her newborn, well, about six weeks later into the pediatrician’s office and she said no to the vaccinations and they bullied her and they threatened her with child protective services. She made that infamous call to Jim. And he said, well, you tell them that I’m a fifth degree black belt and I’ll be there in 2.3 seconds if they don’t let you leave that office immediately. Well, they were bullying her there. And wanted her to vaccinate.
Aaron Siri: They wouldn’t let her leave?
Aaron Siri: What’s the purpose of taking a baby to pediatric office two months, four months, six months, nine months, or what?
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, well, it’s, you know, you’re programmed to do that. That’s what it is. You are programmed to do that. I mean, because, Allie’s…
Aaron Siri: I mean, I the baby’s not better. I understand the baby’s not well or babysit. You know, if you have a healthy baby, it’s because all it is is a vaccine appointment. That’s it. is basically. Yeah, they do. They, you know, they measure the baby like a slab meat and do some measurements and whatnot. But for the most part, for the most part, it’s just a vaccine appointment.
Cathy Meehan: Right. Yes.
Cathy Meehan: Exactly. And that’s what we have to work on changing. And that’s, you know, that’s what we’re doing. We are changing that narrative on, you know, often I speak out on, and my thing is, do we really need pediatricians? And the answer is yes, we need a few critical thinking pediatricians, but we don’t need all of the pediatricians that we have right now. So there’s, yeah, there’s well baby checks. Those are designed just to get your baby in. get them vaccinated.
Aaron Siri: My favorite part is when the pediatrician say, well, we don’t really make money on the vaccines yet, but the kid wouldn’t be in your office for you to bill for the visit and for everything else if you weren’t doing that, if they weren’t getting vaccines. So, you know, they’re like, you like to play this little game without, without, without, you know, the vaccine schedule, there wouldn’t be all of those appointments. There would be nothing to bill for.
Cathy Meehan: No, there wouldn’t. mean, and you have to understand from the pediatrician’s perspective, they may think they’re not making money off the vaccines, but you have to understand they are getting kickbacks. We know for a fact Blue Cross Blue Shield gives kickbacks, Aetna gives kickbacks. And then we’ve seen enough of these vaxxed versus unvaxxed studies that are now coming out where we know that the vaccinated are not as healthy, so therefore you are just creating this conveyor belt of repeat patients. and, that, that takes a critical thinker to figure that out. And these pediatricians are either dumb or ignorant. Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Aaron Siri: I would say most of them are ignorant on this point. don’t want to believe it. They’re believing because there are numerous studies that reflect the kids who get vaccinated. Just something simple, ear infections multiple times. Just something as simple as that. Parents come to the office all over and over over for that. Just something like that. I could just say it in my own practice. Obviously, there are the numerous studies that you just talked about, but there’s also obviously there’s anecdotal.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Aaron Siri: as well for what it’s worth. you know, I interact with families all the time where some kids are vaccinated and some are not. It’s always the vaccinated kids that all the issues. It’s the unvaccinated that have relatively, you know, few, if any issues. And you see that play out in all the vaxxed versus unvaxxed studies that you’re just referring to.
Cathy Meehan: Right, right. So, I mean, I’m just thankful that, you know, all of the information is coming out. I just hope that we can continue it. We’ll touch on one other thing, religious exemptions. So, I know we get called at the office often to do medical exemptions, but we actually refer them to get a religious exemption first. So, what are your thoughts on religious exemptions in general?
Aaron Siri: incredibly important. First freedom of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Big reason why so many folks came to this country to have religious freedom. And when the First Amendment was adopted in 1791, there wasn’t really the separation between the secular and religious. Religion wasn’t Sunday morning. Religion was living your convictions. You lived it. And so we really need to come back to a place of respect. Now, if somebody says, look, I don’t want an MMR or chicken pox vaccine because each vial contains literally billions of pieces of human DNA and cellular debris from an aborted fetal cell line, we should respect that.
Cathy Meehan: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, I’m just glad that people like you are out there helping us navigate our way through that. Do you have any final takes for parents if they are facing, you know, the vaccination dilemmas? What do you suggest they do?
Aaron Siri: I would suggest that you get educated on the topic. I would read the primary sources. There’s a number of great resources out there. Just like you would look at a crash test report quickly. You know, and ICANdecide.org, which is nonprofit that supports a lot of our policy lawsuits. They have a one pager, 10 pager, a 30 pager, any length you’re interested in that summarizes around vaccines all cited and sourced. to mostly government and high impact sources. Or you obviously can read my book, vaccines, I mean, where I lay everything out. And there are other resources as well. But whatever you do, whatever source you go to, I would say, get educated before you make that decision. Whatever you decide, you might decide to do it great. That’s America, it’s freedom, and you should have the right to do it, you know, but be informed. Because I will tell you the one thing that you hear over and over. When there is a problem is a parent goes, know, man, I wish I would have known read beforehand and never would have taken my baby with a fever to get shots or I would never would have done this. Right? Never would have done that. And then it’s too late. And then they have to live with that. And oftentimes their anger is not even directed at the doctors or the hospitals or the CDC. They often just they’re angry with themselves.
Cathy Meehan: Right.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Aaron Siri: So, you know, at least if they’ve done their homework beforehand, they’ve made a knowing decision because so many parents say like, how did I do that before I bought a car research for hours before I went and got it what sofa I wanted. But before I let them jab my kid up, I didn’t even spend one minute looking. Look, read.
Cathy Meehan: No, you’re right. is that, know, Jim and I had five kids. They were all vaccinated and they all had eczema, pneumonia, just like some had measles after the MMR vaccine. I mean, it was like horrible gut issues. It was crazy. And then we learned because of education and studying and everything. then so seven grandkids, no vaccines. The kids are never sick. I mean, or if they get sick, they pop up within 24 hours and there’s no other problems. So, I mean, there’s our own little Meehan study right there that we’ve got. I have a question for you. Are we winning? Yeah.
Aaron Siri: I hear that same story every time. That is the same story. I’ve never heard it the other way. Please.
Cathy Meehan: No, I haven’t either. I haven’t either at all. But my question for you is, are we winning?
Aaron Siri: I mean, I define winning as the ability for everybody to make their own informed decision on these products. And in that regard, absolutely. I think we’re absolutely winning. And if you measure it separately by the percentage of population that is starting to think rather than just believe in these products, winning too. And that’s critical. Look, at the end of the day, you’re not going to change pharmaceutical, you’re not going to able to repeal the 1986 Act. It’s almost impossible. They have a thousand plus pharmaceutical lobbyists, to zero vaccine safety lobbyists as far as I know. So you’re not getting the law repealed. So pharma companies are always going to have the financial disincentive to do anything about safety. So are going to change the pharma companies? Very, very difficult. Are you going to change the government, the FDA? Very, very difficult.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Aaron Siri: Anyways, if you’re relying on the government to save you, you’re in trouble. Unless it’s the war, the government doesn’t do any ever a good job in conforming corporate conduct. OK, and then if you’re waiting for your pediatrician to operate against their own, you know, interest, you’ll be waiting a long time. So at the end of that long line, if we can’t fix the law on the 86 act, we can’t change pharmaceutical company conduct. The FDA is just a mess and forget the CDC.
Cathy Meehan: Hmm.
Aaron Siri: And the pediatricians, know, they’re going to follow what their trade association says because what’s in their best pecuniary interest? I don’t see that changing for a while. What’s the last line of defense? The ability to say no. so and that is that is that is where, you know, I view that as the civil and individual right, maybe of our time, because, you know, even if you love every vaccine and every mask, if the day comes where you don’t want one of those and you can’t get a job.
Cathy Meehan: Yes.
Aaron Siri: You can’t go to school and you can’t be in public. You can’t go to church. You don’t have any rights. And that’s why medical liberty is a fundamental right and why it’s so critical that you have the right to say no. Let them go spend their billions promoting it, which they already do. Let them do it. You know, but at the end of the day, they should be able to have to persuade you on the merits. And if they can’t, that should be the end of the story. And in that score, I think we are winning piece by piece. Look at Florida. They’re getting rid of mandates. There are laws across the country that are going in our direction. Court decisions, even members of Congress understand the issue. We’ve had hearings about this recently. So I’m very hopeful and I think it’s only going to get better and better. And I will say that, you know, if everybody read my book or something else like my book out there, we would get there a lot faster.
Cathy Meehan: Thanks.
Cathy Meehan: Absolutely will. I appreciate you more than you will ever, ever know. And I just pray for you and your protection and your team and pray that ears are opened and people start to understand and they take the step in the right direction. And Aaron Siri, thank you so much for joining me today. I appreciate you so much. Thanks.
Aaron Siri: Thank you.
