Cathy Meehan: Empowering people to take ownership of their wellness is our mission. We want to explore the intersection of faith, science, truth, and health right here on the Meehan Mission podcast. My special guest today is Mary Holland. She is the President and General Counsel of Children’s Health Defense. Mary has decades of experience in constitutional and international law.
Cathy Meehan: It was her own son’s vaccine injury that gave this brilliant mama bear the attitude needed to legally challenge the medical industry. She has spoken before Congress, state legislators, and audiences all over the world about informed consent and medical policy. She is also the co-author and editor of several phenomenal resource books.
Cathy Meehan: The HPV Vaccine on Trial, Vaccine Epidemic, and Turtles All the Way Down. I am honored to welcome Mary to the show.
Cathy Meehan: Hello everyone and welcome to the Meehan Mission podcast. And today my special guest is Mary Holland. And Mary, I am so thankful that you took the time to allow me to introduce you to my community if they didn’t already know who you were. And I also just wanted to let you know that you were one of Jim’s heroes. He…
Cathy Meehan: constantly talked about you and how brave you were and that how you would stand up for our children and just give everything. And I can’t tell you how many times we were sending people the HPV Vaccine on Trial, and we’ll get into your books in a little bit, but I just appreciate you so much. And so thank you for taking the time.
Mary Holland: Well, thank you. you know, we miss Jim very much.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, he’s a hard person to replace. He will never be replaced, that’s for sure. But we are going to make sure that his voice is heard and that we carry on that mission, which is why we created the Meehan Mission podcast so that we can continue to bring on guests like you who are experts in their field. Because really, when it comes to awareness and education,
Mary Holland: Not replace. No.
Cathy Meehan: The more that we know and the more that we can push out to our community, that’s how we win this battle. And you’ve been in this fight for a really long time. I’m so excited to see all of this, the legal part, which is really kind of, with you and with Aaron Siri, just kind of leading the pack, that that’s really making the difference. That’s making the difference. But so I have a question for you.
Mary Holland: Yeah.
Mary Holland: Yep. Yep. Yep.
Cathy Meehan: So what in your lifetime or was it in your childhood? Was it in middle school, college? What made Mary realize that she was built differently than everybody else and she had this fight in her?
Mary Holland: Well, I suppose I’ve always been willing to stand up for things that I believe in. like most people, if I can go along with the crowd, I will, Cathy. If things seem to be OK to me, I’m not going to really step out of line.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Mary Holland: One of, you know, I’ve always been willing where I really disagreed with people to step out and say, no, I really disagree. you know, on this issue, there’s just, when I do really strongly disagree, I feel it so deeply that even though I have lost people very close to me, I’ve lost jobs, all that kind of stuff, it doesn’t really matter. You know, I just.
Mary Holland: If I have a deep conviction that I’m doing what the universe is telling me to do, I just have to accept that there’s things that go along with that. I can be really sad about losing friendships and there are many I’m really sad about, but it doesn’t make me change my mind.
Cathy Meehan: That’s good. Well, you know, it’s that determination. Do you like wake up every morning and with a mission and you go out the door and do it? Is that your personality type? I would, you know, you get so much done. What?
Mary Holland: Not compared to how much there is to do, You know, I do the little bit I can. It’s like, know, Bobby Kennedy would say, you know, I just can do it with my own little piece, my own, I’m only in charge of my own little piece of real estate. I like getting things done, Cathy. I like getting things done. I am pretty mission driven. So, you know, I am at CHD and Children’s Health Defense and we are
Cathy Meehan: I know it’s like a never-ending list.
Mary Holland: doing a lot, as you point out. And so I do feel very mission driven to support the team and help get things done and be aware of what’s going on and support what our mission is, which is to end the epidemic of chronic childhood disease in the United States, but globally and to educate people, to put in place, to find sort of…
Mary Holland: redress for those who’ve been injured and to put in place safeguards so it doesn’t happen again. you know, I do feel I have been in this for about 25 years, Cathy. And in that time, I do feel like there’s been tremendous progress as much as we’re not there yet. And we’re not. We are now really getting into the courts in a way that was pretty unimaginable 20 years ago. The fight is on. You know, I sometimes quote for people, it’s attributed to Gandhi at
Mary Holland: probably wasn’t Gandhi, but they say, first they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, and then you win. And so we are very much in the fight stage now. They can’t ignore us anymore. They don’t even ridicule us so much anymore. They’re fighting us. know, pharma is fighting us every day. Big chem, big pharma, big media, they are fighting us. They don’t ignore us or trivialize us anymore. They know that
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Mary Holland: People are sick of being made sick unnecessarily. People are sick of sickness. That’s the truth.
Cathy Meehan: Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, they’re sick of being taken advantage of, really. you know, it’s…
Mary Holland: Yep, exploited, absolutely. We’ve been exploited, absolutely.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, so I want to go back. So you say you’ve been in this for like 20 years. What 25 what was the catalyst that? Put you in this fight. Was there a specific incident or?
Mary Holland: 25.
Mary Holland: Well, yeah, there’s a very specific catalyst, my son. So, you know, he at age two started to lose his developmental milestones. And I realized that is bizarre. That is, I’d never heard anything like it. If this was normal, Cathy, there would be fairy tales about it. It would be in religious scriptures.
Mary Holland: it would be in the science literature. And none of that was the case here. I’m watching my young two-year-old lose language, lose the ability to sleep, lose the ability to eat properly. I’m watching him lose all of his developmental early milestones and I’m horrified. So it, it, and.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Mary Holland: I came from a very orthodox medical background. Both my parents were physicians. Two of my uncles were physicians. I grew up as a child in this very medicalized environment. And so I didn’t suspect that, you know, there was possibly anything wrong per se in that. But I became aware pretty early on that, that it, pretty early on, not super early on, but I was just like,
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Mary Holland: there’s a cause for this. This isn’t normal. Like this didn’t just happen. This isn’t just like, you know, oh, some kids develop autism. I mean, that was obvious to me just as a maternal kind of instinct. It’s like something happened. I don’t know what it was, but obviously there was a trigger. And if there was an environmental trigger, there’s a de-triggering mechanism. So I believe that I can change this and I’m going to find out what the trigger was.
Cathy Meehan: No
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Mary Holland: And in his case, it was pretty clear. He was not one of these kids who got a shot and had seizures that night or 105 fever, but he got a battery of shots. once I understood at the time, Cathy, it was kind of like the, mercury hypothesis, the thimerosal causing mercury poisoning. Then I sort of pasted it together and I realized, that’s exactly what happened to him. Right. He got all of these mercury containing shots.
Mary Holland: dysregulated his immune system. He was having some developmental issues, but not really super strong. And then we walloped him with measles, mumps, rubella, three live viruses. And he, you know, just, you know, was really, really severely harmed. you know, thankfully, recognizing that there were environmental harms did allow me to pursue biomedical interventions.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Mary Holland: He, you know, really improved drastically. But you know, he’s not the same person that he would have been without the brain injury. He was severely brain injured. And it’s unconscionable that we’re still doing this, Cathy. It’s unconscionable. It’s unconscionable. And I just, I couldn’t not do anything, Cathy. I just couldn’t. It’s like, I’ve got to tell other people.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, 25 years later, still happening. Yeah.
Cathy Meehan: No.
Mary Holland: And it’s a hard message. It’s not a message that the world wanted to hear, especially 25 years ago. And so I haven’t always been the loudest or the most harsh voice, but I have been a part of the medical community, the scientific community with your husband, with others saying, this isn’t right. We’re harming children. We’re doing more harm than good. And I do feel like over the last 25 years, Cathy, there’s now like a body of science. There’s anecdotal evidence.
Mary Holland: You know, I have to say that COVID was the silver lining because during COVID, it was obvious to the whole world. They’re lying to us. They’re lying through their teeth. This doesn’t stop infection. It doesn’t stop transmission. They want us to take 10 doses. In Europe, they bought 10 doses per person. think the… What’s the word I want? The exploitative at best, the kind of evil agenda at worst just became pretty clear to people.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, it was.
Cathy Meehan: I just wanna smack my head.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, well, I recall, know, so Jim and I, it would have been about 10 years really. We stepped into the world of exposing the medical fraud and pharmaceuticals shortly after Vaxxed came out. That’s really what gave Jim his public voice and really started, you know, snowballing this, you know, we got to tell people, we got to get out the message and everything. But I remember a few years prior to COVID,
Cathy Meehan: we were all saying, you know, it’s gonna take an adult vaccine to really wake up the world. And, you know, that’s exactly what we got. We got the COVID vaccine, which really showed everybody how the sausage was made. And really, you’re right, it was a silver lining. was that blessing in disguise. And it also brought so many communities together that were already, you know, pulling against the government or, you know, whatever it was. But I wanna go back to…
Cathy Meehan: when your son started having these adverse events, just did you approach the pediatrician and, you know, you’re like, I think it was the shots. I mean, how did that conversation go?
Mary Holland: You know, I didn’t, I didn’t perceive that it was the shots right away, Cathy, his, his regression was sort of slow and it was genuinely, this is, know, 25 years ago, it was sort of mysterious. And I, this was really kind of pretty early on, even with the internet. So I’m like looking on the internet, I’m reading resources about autism and the vaccine hypothesis wasn’t really widely available, but I learned through reading
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Mary Holland: the book called Unraveling the Mystery of Autism by Karyn Seroussi, I learned about the Defeat Autism Now conference. And I was like, this sounds what I need. This is like the scientists, the doctors, the parents. That’s where I need to go. And so I went to that in 2001 to San Diego. It was right before 9-11. And I heard Elizabeth Birt. I heard Rick Rollens. I heard
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Mary Holland: Andy Wakefield, heard sort of leaders in identifying things, but I heard, I think it was Elizabeth Birt who gave the presentation. Lynn Redwood was there. The presentation, thimerosal, autism is a unique form of mercury poisoning. And that, I read that paper and I was like, that’s it. That’s what happened. I gave him all the shots that had thimerosal. We had actually saved the package insert. So I went back and I was like,
Cathy Meehan: Okay.
Cathy Meehan: That was it. Yeah.
Mary Holland: yeah. And he could have been getting the bottom of the vial. He could have been particularly sensitive. But it was obvious to me, my gosh. And so then through DAN!, which doesn’t exist anymore, Defeat Autism Now, I found local doctors who had been trained in this and we started chelation there. No, I take that back. We started an antifungal nystatin over the counter treatment. It was like a pill. And the kids starts having 10
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Mary Holland: words a day. And I was like, okay, this was environmental. The fact that plausible theory, the facts fit the theory. And then I can start to reverse this right away. was like, but even so, Cathy, again, I was indoctrinated just like everybody, even so I was very skeptical to say my kid’s autism is due to vaccines. I didn’t say that. And so I thought, okay, well, as a lawyer, maybe one of the
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Mary Holland: contributions I could make, by then I was connected to AutismOne, I will listen to all of the testimony in the omnibus autism proceeding. So literally, I listened every day to the first three cases under the vaccine injury compensation program. And that was what really got me off the couch. That was when it was so clear to me, the government’s lying. They’re just lying.
Cathy Meehan: yeah.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Mary Holland: And then when we would listen to the doctors who would explain the theories of like, you know, it’s very well understood that different metals, copper, mercury can cause inflammation. can cause brain damage. And you listen to, know, high fevers can cause brain inflammation. it was such, it was so clear that was really what, you know, it’s the beauty of a trial. And it wasn’t even really a real trial, but, but
Mary Holland: I got to listen to both sides, which of course the pro-vaccine people have deprived us of for 25 years of real debate, vigorous debate in front of the public, you know, or courtrooms. No, they don’t. But I actually got to listen. I’m glad you’re reminding me this. I got to listen very early on to the government’s position, HHS actually, Health and Human Services, represented by Department of Justice versus
Cathy Meehan: Well, they don’t want to They can’t debate.
Mary Holland: a petitioner steering committee of lawyers from the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. And I got to listen to the scientists lined up on both sides. And I was like, the government’s lawyers, the government’s experts are lying. And that was what really gave me the confidence to say, yeah, they’re just lying. And to be very, you know, loud and proud and let people know.
Cathy Meehan: How?
Mary Holland: And so that led me on a journey to find other parents. Of course, my first obligation was to help recover my son. But secondarily, my objective was I want to let people know that this is really dangerous. Like they’re not telling us the full story. And, you know, I respect civil rights. I believe in human rights, Cathy. So if somebody wants to take a vaccine, I’m not going to want to stop that person. But the reality is,
Cathy Meehan: Yes.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Mary Holland: Nobody, people aren’t getting truthful information. That’s the bottom line. There’s deception, there’s censorship, there’s propaganda. And in that context, nobody can make an informed choice. And so my objective has been to help people get truthful information and to ensure that we have a choice. A lot of what’s also happened with these medical mandates and with COVID and you know, with the…
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Mary Holland: denials of religious exemptions to deny people of choice. Well, that’s unethical. We believe in modern medicine and informed consent, but they’ve basically been trying to whittle that away in any kind of infectious disease context. So anyway, that’s a little bit of the story.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, no, that’s well and that just leads right into informed consent, which is, know, if everybody just understood informed consent, you inform the person of the risks and the benefits and the alternatives and they consent yes or no. And that’s yeah. And that’s it. That’s all that it should be.
Mary Holland: Or no.
Mary Holland: And exactly, there should be no medical mandates. We admire what’s been done in Idaho. There should be no medical mandates. They are antithetical to informed consent. And really, should be, Cathy, informed consent or refusal. People have the right to refuse. You get to consent or you get to refuse. And in both cases, it’s got to be based on accurate, adequate information.
Cathy Meehan: Uh-uh.
Mary Holland: and we don’t have the adequate accurate information and these mandates are coercive. I do go back to the Nuremberg code, the consent of the individual is absolutely essential. That was just about experimental subjects, but that was 1947, that’s been expanded over the decades. That should be every medical intervention. And so the law hasn’t quite caught up. Certainly the World Health Organization hasn’t caught up. Certainly not the World Economic Forum, sadly not Congress.
Mary Holland: But the bottom line is if you have a medical model that says informed consent is absolutely essential, which we do, there can be no medical mandates full stop.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, absolutely, which is thankful that the route to defeat a lot of this is now turning to legal precedents. we can, yeah, let’s talk about some legal stuff. That’s your profession right there. So, you know, we have Kennedy and HHS. mean, who ever thought that would happen? I mean.
Mary Holland: Yep. Yep.
Mary Holland: Certainly I didn’t, Cathy. It was kind of a shocker, but a really welcome shocker, right? None of us, none of the people who are working for Bobby when he was running for president, none of us thought that, okay, well, you know.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, I mean, talk about the stars aligning and God giving favor and all. it’s I Jimmy’s dancing in heaven. I do know that. I know that everything that’s happened. but you know, the interesting thing to me is, okay, so he comes. So what happens? We remove Hep B. We like revise the ACIP committee.
Cathy Meehan: We reduced the number of vaccines on the CD schedule. We’re all cheering. We’re like, yes, yes, yes. We’ve got Dr. Stoller and Paul Thomas with their RICO lawsuit against the CDC. All of these great things, great things. And then all of a sudden we pissed off the American Academy of Pediatrics a little bit. Just a little bit. my gosh. I cannot stand that organization.
Mary Holland: Just a little.
Cathy Meehan: anybody knows anybody that’s on the or an American Academy of pediatrician pediatrician. You’re very closed mind. You need to become a critical thinker and figure out what’s really going on above your paycheck. So that’s my whole thing there. OK, so the AAP gets a little mad. And so then.
Cathy Meehan: Now tell me, they decided to sue HHS, right? And Bobby Kennedy. And so where do we stand now? Because so does that mean HEPB’s back on? All the, I mean, what happened next? Yeah.
Mary Holland: Yeah. let me explain what’s happened. So we did, I guess, what’s first? I guess it is first. Last summer, the American Academy of Pediatrics sued Robert Kennedy as the Secretary of Health and Human Services and alleged that essentially everything he was doing when it came to vaccine policy was wrong and that he didn’t have the authority to do it. And they kept amending their complaint. so everything he did, the hep B,
Mary Holland: the COVID recommendation, the convening of a new ACIP committee, the meetings that were gonna come up of the ACIP committee, the changing of the schedule to reduce sort of what was routine and then create some that were shared clinical decision-making. Every time Kennedy would make a change, the AAP would amend their complaint. And so about, I guess a month ago, they, and AAP,
Mary Holland: which we believe is a front organization for the pharmaceutical industry and it’s with other organizations in the pharmaceutical pantheon, they chose a judge in Boston, first circuit court of appeals, but a federal court judge, Judge Murphy. Judge Murphy had only been on the bench for a year and a half. Judge Murphy’s already been overturned twice by the Supreme Court
Cathy Meehan: yeah.
Cathy Meehan: Absolutely, yes.
Cathy Meehan: Mm hmm.
Mary Holland: on immigration-related decisions. Anyway, they found Judge Murphy. And candidly, the lawyers for HHS did not make, in our view, the best arguments they could have made. And we saw it as children’s health defense because AAP is representing the pediatricians, HHS is representing the government. We think somebody should be representing the children in this. These are the people who are really involved.
Cathy Meehan: Yes.
Mary Holland: So we tried to intervene in that lawsuit. The court said, no, we won’t let you intervene, but bring us a friend of the court brief, which we did. So we’re in that. We’ve already appealed the decision. So the court ruled against Bobby in favor of AAP, and they granted a preliminary injunction, which is based on the idea that it serves the public interest and the party that gets the injunction is most likely to win.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Cathy Meehan: Okay.
Mary Holland: at trial when all the evidence is shown. We don’t agree with that. That was what this judge who’s had his problems in his short year and a half has found. And so what did that do? It basically said that Kennedy under the Federal Advisory Committee Act and the Administrative Procedure Act did not have the authority that he exercised and that he had not created a
Mary Holland: qualified ACIP panel and that he without ACIP’s blessing, well, because he hadn’t had the committee was not formulated the way it should have been in his view, this judge’s view, nothing that Kennedy has done is sort of legitimate. So I consider the judge’s ruling almost nonsensical, Cathy, because it’s a catch-22. It’s like everything that you’ve decided doesn’t work, because the committee isn’t legitimate, but you need…
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Mary Holland: the judge’s approval to do anything. So literally, if there were an Ebola outbreak tomorrow and the world wanted an Ebola vaccine to be made available to the public, that wouldn’t really be possible without that secretary going to the judge, which is ridiculous, right? Absolutely ridiculous. Basically, this judge has completely frozen all activity related to infectious disease at the Centers for Disease Control. So we…
Cathy Meehan: It’s, yeah.
Cathy Meehan: Mm.
Mary Holland: Children’s Health Defense have already appealed that judge’s decision saying that was a wrong decision and we should be able to intervene and you decided that wrongly. And Kennedy on behalf of HHS has filed a notice of appeal that they will be appealing the decision. Now back in January, Children’s Health Defense filed a lawsuit against the American Academy of Pediatrics.
Mary Holland: for racketeering. We believe that the AAP has knowingly, intentionally been lying to pediatricians and to the American public, to parents of young children for decades saying that the whole childhood schedule has been proven to be safe and effective. That is a lie. The Institute of Medicine
Cathy Meehan: Yes.
Cathy Meehan: Mmm.
Cathy Meehan: absolute lie.
Mary Holland: is the highest authority in medicine in the country has twice in 2002 and 2013 opined that the schedule has not been adequately tested and that to really test the safety of the schedule, you would have to retrospectively do a vax-unvax study. AAP has never done that. AAP has relied on nonsensical arguments by
Mary Holland: Dr. Paul Offit and others, that it’s theoretically possible to give 10,000 vaccines to a baby at once because their immune system is so robust. Two of the plaintiffs in that, you mentioned Ken Stoller and Paul Thomas are plaintiffs in our lawsuit, the racketeering case. So what is racketeering? It’s that they work in a conspiracy with other entities and they…
Cathy Meehan: friend.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Mary Holland: perpetrate fraud and they make money on the fraud and they use federal wires and mails to achieve their fraud. So they put out stuff on the internet, they send mailers to their pediatricians, they send notices to parents. So we believe that this is a fraudulent conspiracy scheme to make money. Of course it’s intentional. two of the plaintiffs are Paul Thomas and Ken Stoller. They lost their licenses as pediatricians saying,
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, it’s intentional.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Mary Holland: you know, what we’re doing is harming children. So Paul Thomas did research, Ken Stoller was granting legitimate medical exemptions. But the most powerful plaintiffs, Cathy, are two moms whose babies died by following the AAP schedule. So the first mom, Andrea Shaw, she had twins and she told the physicians, you know, my husband has had adverse reactions to the flu vaccines.
Mary Holland: I don’t think my kids should get all their shots at 18 months. And they were given the shots anyway. They went back to the hospital. The hospital said, well, maybe they’re having an adverse vaccine reaction, but they’ll be fine. And the kids died. And then adding insult to injury, the mother was investigated for murder because the narrative is so strong in the American public that vaccines are safe and effective, vaccines save lives. The other mother, Shantisha Nelson,
Mary Holland: mother of several children. had a baby about 12 months, took the baby in for a checkup, a well baby visit. They said, oh my gosh, she’s behind. You didn’t get the six month shots. And the mom says, you know, she’s got a sniffle. She’s got a low grade fever. She’s really not well. No, no, no, it’s fine to vaccinate a baby who’s mildly ill. So they give the baby, I forget how many shots all at once. And the baby starts having a seizure in the car. They take
Mary Holland: the baby to the hospital, they were driving the whole family, and the baby dies of a cardiac arrest in the hospital. There’s zero question that these toddlers and baby died from following AAP’s advice. And this is criminal, frankly, Cathy, that there’s advice for children that is killing children. So we feel very strongly that
Cathy Meehan: It is.
Mary Holland: We’ve got to get the truth out. We’ve got to get more people to understand who the AAP is. Literally, Cathy, they’ve never met a vaccine they don’t like. This is how pediatric practices basically make their money. They have well-baby visits, you know, at birth, two months, four months, six months, 12 months, and then, you know, on an annual basis. And there’s literally about almost 100 vaccines from birth to 100 if you were to follow the old AAP CDC schedule, what Kennedy did.
Mary Holland: was to leave most of them, the majority of them, two thirds of them is still as routinely recommended, but some of them, the flu shot, the COVID shot, the hepatitis A shot, he moved those to be kind of voluntary. You figure it out with your doctor, does your kid really need this or not? And so, course, that over time could eat into the revenue stream for pediatricians. And I think,
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Mary Holland: I think most pediatricians are very well-meaning and they believe they’re doing right by children. But I don’t believe that’s the case at the AAP, Cathy. The AAP is really working with pharma to ensure that as many vaccines are given. And the sad, awful truth is that they don’t just make their money from giving the shots. What the shots really do is they dysregulate the immune system. And that is a huge driver.
Mary Holland: of the chronic disease epidemic that we see, is, you know, contribute allergies, asthma, eczema, autism, ADHD, type two diabetes or type one diabetes. I mean, it’s really the type one diabetes, anaphylaxis, tic, seizures, learning disabilities, anxiety, bipolar. All of these things are definitely plausibly related.
Mary Holland: to vaccines. And so we believe that we’re living through a massive epidemic of vaccine injury. And that now really the studies are available to show that. Not only the studies that have been done by Neil Miller and Brian Hooker, who works at Children’s Health Defense and Tony Mawson, but this recent big study that Del Bigtree has publicized that was done at the Henry Ford Center, Dr. Zervos, that’s a big part of people. I know, shame on you.
Cathy Meehan: Yes. Dr. Zervos, he needs to come forward and save the children and not be worried about his ego. And it’s not too late. Come over to our side. Yeah, it’s not too late.
Mary Holland: because I don’t want that. It’s not, well, that’s what I, you know, it’s, Cathy, I just wrote an article on that. It’s never too late. It’s never too late to stop the propaganda and tell the truth. And I exhort people the same thing. It’s like, look, I understand that it may feel sad and difficult, but just look at reality. Like, wake up and tell the truth.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Cathy Meehan: Right.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, you’ll be able to sleep better. I mean, it’s it’s such I mean, well, and for viewers who have not yet seen what Mary is talking about, it’s called An Inconvenient Study documentary. And you talked about it’s a retrospective study. So what they did is they take they take historical data. So they they compare vaccinated to unvaccinated. And the truth is,
Cathy Meehan: There is so much data out there that these studies can be replicated. And, the problem is, it’s not a problem for us, but it’s a problem for the AAP and pharmaceutical companies. They’re going to show that the unvaccinated are healthier than the vaccinated. And it’s just going to continue with that. And so the data is out there. The data is out there.
Mary Holland: The data is out there and that, this film, an inconvenient study that informed consent action network did is an excellent film. And it shows you, unfortunately, Dr. Zervos at the end saying, yeah, the study shows that unvaccinated kids are healthier. They’re about four times less likely to have a chronic health condition of any kind than the vaccinated kids. But we’re not going to try to publish this study because I would lose my job. And fortunately, this study was brought to the attention of Senator Ron Johnson, who said,
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Mary Holland: This is not about Dr. Zervos. This is about America’s children. This is about America’s, is about the American public. And he made the study available. And of course, Cathy, it’s not the only or definitive study. needs to be replicated. We need to peer review this stuff. But all of the studies, all of the studies that have been done, and we say there’s 12 different studies of comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated outcomes, health outcomes. They all
Mary Holland: that unvaccinated people are healthier. And I think it’s kind of obvious. It’s like vaccines manipulating the immune system. And we humans are just not divine, right? We have divinely created immune systems and we think that we can monkey around and create antibodies and somehow that’s gonna be an improvement. mean,
Cathy Meehan: It is.
Cathy Meehan: and fix it. Yeah, but doesn’t. Yeah.
Mary Holland: Yeah, it starts from this premise of like, you know, we need to fix something, we need a manmade fix to, you know, an incomparably extraordinary divine body. It’s kind of when you stop and step back, the whole idea that injecting poisons and illnesses into the body to manipulate the immune system is going to be an improvement. Really.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, mean, what could go wrong, Mary?
Mary Holland: What could go wrong? Yeah. I mean, it’s kind of an idiotic idea, frankly. I mean, not to say that, you know, mass vaccination with a measles vaccine suppresses measles. It does. In most people, it will work. At what cost? We don’t really fully appreciate, but it doesn’t even work in everybody, There are measles outbreaks every day in 100 % because they don’t always work when it gives to you or they wear off, right? It’s, they don’t work.
Cathy Meehan: It is. It is.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Cathy Meehan: Yes.
Mary Holland: well enough to justify the costs in any way, the cost of administration, the cost of monitoring, but most importantly, the cost of the injuries and the deaths, right? The vaccine can cause deaths in babies. What could be more outrageous? You illness is a terrible thing, but most illnesses, including measles, are highly treatable, right? So wouldn’t we be better off to treat the cases that really need treatment?
Cathy Meehan: Mm-mm. No.
Cathy Meehan: And the deaths, yes.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Cathy Meehan: All right.
Cathy Meehan: Yes, yes.
Cathy Meehan: and
Mary Holland: but just to let people get sick every once in a while. You train the immune system how to respond to an infection. So we lost the plot on mass vaccination back in the 60s and it’s gonna stop. It’s already stopping. But it’s process, you know, it’s a process.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, yeah, it is. It is well, you we have our Jim and I had five kids and we were following the vaccination schedule with all of them. We finally stopped with HPV came around, but our kids pneumonia asthma.
Cathy Meehan: My kids were on nebulizers, I mean like every day. Macy didn’t speak until after she was three years old and the pediatrician said that was normal. just all, know, gut issues. Tori would bleed from scratching or eczema. And then now we have like seven grandchildren that are unvaccinated. you know, if they get sick, it’s like a couple of days and then they’re all better. Yeah, and rest. Yeah, yeah.
Mary Holland: my mom.
Mary Holland: And rest. And that’s so wonderful, Cathy. I’m so happy to hear that you have those beautiful unvaccinated grandkids. Yeah, kids are meant to be healthy. And one thing that I find, I just did an interview with some unvaccinated children and their parents. And I really believe that a lot of the anxiety and the agitation, the bipolar, disc, you know, what is it?
Cathy Meehan: They are.
Mary Holland: the oppositional defiance, really believe that, you we have a neuroimmune system. I really believe we’re harming our sort of inner sense of harmony with these vaccines, let alone the physical manifestations. But I believe that the mental manifestations are really a huge issue, especially for the kids, because we know kids are really suffering. The suicidality among children is just, it’s unbelievable. It’s horrible.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, yeah, it’s very interesting. And actually, I’m going to plug. did a podcast, a three part podcast on in utero and infant reflexes with a chiropractor, Dr. Laura Hansen. And she talks about, you know, the adverse events and injuries. And if they’re not achieving these reflexes, how it affects the mental anxiety and all of those. And it’s all tied in there. And I want
Mary Holland: Sure.
Cathy Meehan: I’m gonna jump back because we were talking about the parents that are in the lawsuit and that the mother of the twins was actually accused of killing her children.
Mary Holland: Yeah.
Cathy Meehan: Do you believe that parents have been wrongfully accused and convicted for child abuse? Is there anybody that helps them? Because I hear those things and it just like, I’m just like, it’s horrifying. Yeah. Yeah.
Mary Holland: Yeah, I do. I do. I do. Yeah. Yeah. It’s horrifying. It’s horrifying. It’s horrifying. You know, there used to be a physician, I can’t call his name, you know, but these shaken baby syndrome cases. So actually, it was interesting, I had a conversation with pediatrician Paul Thomas. And he was telling me back in the day he
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Cathy Meehan: Mm.
Mary Holland: was taken in by this rhetoric that there’s such a thing as shaken baby syndrome. No, if a baby’s brain is super inflamed, I think so often that’s the case. I’m not saying there’s no conceivable mistreatment of children that we shouldn’t investigate, of course we should, but every case of sudden infant death syndrome, which is a complete misnomer for mostly death by vaccine,
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mary Holland: or for shaken baby syndrome. Both of those, in my view, are largely euphemisms for injury and death from vaccines in infants. And we really need to look back at this. We do. I don’t know how many convictions there’ve been across the country, but I know that there have been some. And there were some efforts to free people from this, but these are very serious issues.
Cathy Meehan: Okay.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, yeah.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, yeah, they really are. Well, I remember, you know, that was one of the things that really Jim was like during his residency as an ophthalmologist, which is an eye surgeon. While he was a resident, he’d get called over to the Children’s Hospital when there were suspected cases of shaken baby syndrome and he would have to check, you know, the retina and to look for bleeding, any type of, you know, retinal hemorrhaging.
Cathy Meehan: And it was a checkbox for, you know, shaken baby syndrome or, and, but he was like, the parents were adamant. They didn’t hurt the child. There’s no bruises. There’s no broken bones. And it was just like, but that was one of those things he was like, you know, it just doesn’t add up. and, and then I guess he had a couple of studies when he was an editor for the ocular journal showing a vascular hemorrhaging with
Cathy Meehan: related to vaccinations. So, but you know, it’s those things and I just always wonder when I hear like on the news that, you know, this father has been accused of murdering the six month old child, which by the way, that’s usually after the six month routine visit and that they go to prison and I’m just like, my gosh, did anybody check the vaccination record of the baby? And yeah.
Mary Holland: Yeah, mean, there’s any any infant death, any infant death, Cathy should be evaluated for when the baby had their vaccinations and the baby’s death. And, you know, the US has the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world, you know, obviously, and we have the highest rate of early vaccination. You know, we are out of step with Western Europe and Japan. We do have
Cathy Meehan: Yeah. Yeah.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm. Yes.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Mary Holland: more and we have more autism, have more SIDS, we have more all of these things. So, know, what Kennedy’s tried to do, he did not take away in his policies that are frozen for the moment. There was not a single vaccine that was unavailable, that had been available. There was not a single vaccine that had been uninsured by the Vaccines for Children program. I mean,
Mary Holland: really what AAP did in this lawsuit is do something preemptively. They’re afraid of what may happen down the line, but the reality, there’s not a single vaccine that you couldn’t get and there was no change in the insurance coverage. So, you know, they were just really trying to thwart him and you know, pharma is a
Cathy Meehan: Yes, yeah.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Cathy Meehan: And buy some time. They’re trying to buy some time to figure out how they can overcome this. Yeah. Well, they’re not going to overcome it. No.
Mary Holland: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. No, they’re not. They’re not. think that ultimately what we’ll see, Cathy, much like when tobacco finally, know, pharma uses the tobacco playbook. It’s like, you know, doubt is their product. your baby could die from measles. You know, get your, get your MMR, right? You know, you’re going to die if you don’t take the vaccines. It’s the same.
Cathy Meehan: Yes.
Mary Holland: It’s one of the playbooks and then, yeah, those people are nuts. know, their, their science is, is really flimsy. We’re anti-vaxxers, right? You raise all of that stuff, like tobacco, ultimately there will be a big legal settlement, just like in tobacco. We’re not quite there yet, but we’re on the way. There will be a big settlement and ultimately to bat like what happened with tobacco.
Cathy Meehan: They’re anti-vaxxers.
Cathy Meehan: you
Mary Holland: they had to move into other industries. Now, sadly, they moved into food and they made our food addictive and they made our food ultra-processed. But what we’re going to see is a morphing, I think, of pharma because already, I don’t know if you picked up on this, but this is fabulous. So Pfizer was apparently trying to pull together a new clinical trial, I guess, for the COVID shot, an mRNA COVID shot. They didn’t have enough people for the clinical trial. So that’s where…
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Cathy Meehan: What have you heard?
Cathy Meehan: Yeah
Mary Holland: is freedom of choice, right? There’s a market there and nobody would go sign up for clinical trial. Even people who, you know, presumably needed money badly. Nobody want to go sign up for that clinical trial. Nobody trusts these people anymore as they should not. And so it’s not all manifest yet, but the processes are absolutely in motion. The processes are in motion.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, well we’ve absolutely I mean what started out as little ripples is turning into this great big tide and it’s just gonna keep going and it’s gonna be great so and I don’t I I want to just quickly make sure that people see this book HPV vaccine on trial because sadly it’s still on the market the HPV vaccine Which at one time was the deadliest vaccine right until the COVID vaccine came along? they
Mary Holland: Yeah. Thank you.
Mary Holland: You know.
Cathy Meehan: Talk about corruption on how they designed their clinical studies and how they pushed this out and how many women they damaged and the fertility decline. If you don’t know about the HPV vaccine, that’s just another great resource, Why’d you pick the HPV vaccine?
Mary Holland: You know, my co-authors, Kim Mack Rosenberg, Eileen Iorio, and I, we all had children who suffered vaccine injury that looked like autism, but we were learning about and reading about the injuries from the HPV vaccine. And these were, you know, teenagers who were dying or teenagers who were becoming paralyzed or have suffering severe brain damage and were horrified. And we thought,
Cathy Meehan: Uh-huh.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm. Just debilitating.
Mary Holland: We were horrified and they were pushing this first on all girls, right? As starting at like age nine to 13, know, protect yourself against cervical cancer. And then having sold it for cervical cancer, then they turn around and they sell it to boys who don’t have cervixes. Oh, you you’re going to protect your partners and it’s going to protect you against herpes. And, you know, it’s just a good thing to do, vaccinations. And so, you know, they started really pushing it across the country on all girls and boys.
Mary Holland: Fortunately, it was never mandated in a state where there wasn’t a religious exemption. That has never yet happened because it has, there’s been a lot of pushback from parents of like, you know, are you telling me you want my kid to be promiscuous and they’re gonna start having, you know, sex at like nine or 13? So fortunately, there’s been a lot of pushback to the vaccine, but it’s been pushed aggressively around the world, especially in developing countries.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Mary Holland: It absolutely does have impacts on fertility, but it causes death. It causes cervical cancer in some people. The clinical trials were abhorrent. They didn’t adequately characterize it. They never used a true control, either for Gardasil or for Gardasil 9. For the big part of the clinical trial, they gave the girls in the alleged control aluminum to make the injuries sort of like even out in the groups.
Cathy Meehan: equal or something,
Mary Holland: Even with all of the doctoring of the data they did, the original clinical trial data shows that if a woman does go in and has a cervical infection or has antibodies, human papilloma antibodies that are in the vaccine, she’s at increased risk of cervical cancer or cervical abnormal growth. And they don’t test women before they give this shot. And we interviewed
Mary Holland: know, teenagers who die, we interviewed the parents of children who we interviewed the parents of children who committed suicide because they couldn’t live with sort of the pain that happened to them. And it’s still on the market, it’s still being pushed. medical establishment is still saying it’s, you know, completely safe and effective, and it’s the best way to…
Cathy Meehan: parents.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mary Holland: prevents cervical cancer. Cervical cancer is a very low risk. PAP screening, which had been done for 50 years, is highly effective. Just sort of having somebody look at a woman’s cervix every three years or so. So it’s another exploitative medical product that the medical industry and the pharmaceutical industry and governments have picked up and they have pushed. it won’t last forever, Cathy, but it’s still
Cathy Meehan: Right. It’s still there. Yeah, it’s still there. Well, you know, the other thing, you know, Facebook and Instagram and all of an alternative media and all of these things. Well, while it has some negative things, the good thing is that people are able to now kind of find some other perspectives on things and actually dig a little deeper. You know, the censorship part during Covid. I mean, I think that’s weighing down most of us who lost Twitter and
Mary Holland: still going.
Mary Holland: Yes.
Mary Holland: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Cathy Meehan: Accounts and I think we’re starting to get those back but there’s I’m so thankful for all the independent people and people doing podcasts and people getting out there and really speaking and not only that is you get an opportunity to actually explain things to people and with your credentials and Instead of you know, somebody taking out three sentences that you said and turning that those words against you
Mary Holland: Yeah, it’s I just completely agree with you. There is still censorship by algorithm. So there is still censorship on X and on Facebook and on Instagram and on Substack. But in all of those places, and you’re right, especially in podcasts, so much more information is readily available than much more available than used to be. And one of the things that’s really interesting to us, Cathy, is, you know, not only are we now like
Cathy Meehan: Mm.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mary Holland: quoted in the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal and the Washington Post and Politico and Stat, but they are actually linking to our articles, right? So people who are now reading the mainstream will say, I wonder if they got that quote right. And they’ll look back at the original. So it is shifting and the word is out and people are voting with their feet, right? People have left the states that don’t have religious exemptions, the rates of
Cathy Meehan: Great.
Mary Holland: vaccination for children are going down. Nobody’s taking the COVID shot. So we as a community, the health freedom world, we have gotten through to people, but there’s more work to do because pharma and the medical establishment are still lying and everybody wants to believe their doctor. It’s like you want to believe your priest. You want to believe your spouse. You want to believe your parents. And so it’s, it’s really a terrible wrong.
Cathy Meehan: Yes.
Mary Holland: when the medical establishment is lying to patients. And unfortunately, that’s really still the case when it comes to vaccines.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, well, I’m thankful that we have people like Mary Holland on the legal side because I really think a lot of the results are going to, you know, have to be fought in the courts. I imagine when you were a little girl, did you like have your stuffed animals out and like do court scenarios?
Mary Holland: No, I didn’t. But I grew up in a family where there was vigorous debate at the dining room table. And I’ve always loved debating ideas, Cathy. think like Bobby Kennedy said, at HHS on the presidential, it’s like, I’m not ideologically bound to any conclusion. I just think like most normal people, I just want
Cathy Meehan: Okay.
Mary Holland: our children to be healthy. If I thought that vaccination was making children healthy, if I thought the evidence showed that vaccination was making children healthier, I would be the first person to be pro-vaccine. That’s not what the facts are. That’s not what, you know, is the truth. And the only reason that vaccinations are safe and effective vaccine saves lives.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Mary Holland: still plays in the world that we live in is because of the propaganda and censorship that the pharmaceutical industry and medicine are still.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, well, I think that people need to just stop taking everything for granted or believing everything that they’re told. And you might think vaccines are safe and effective. Well, take that thinking brain and start doing a little bit more research. And again, we’re not saying that vaccines are the cause of absolutely all chronic disease, but it’s a big
Mary Holland: No, they’re not. That’s a big part.
Cathy Meehan: portion of it. It really is. It really is. So Mary Holland, what do want people to do?
Mary Holland: I want people to come to our website, Cathy, ChildrensHealthDefense.org. And I want them, if they’re on Twitter, to follow us at ChildrensHD. Sign up for our free newsletter, The Defender. It is some of the best journalism about health and what’s going on for children out there. really, we have an amazing team doing great work.
Cathy Meehan: Thank you.
Mary Holland: Come watch us at CHD.TV. We go live streaming 10 a.m. Eastern every day, Monday through Sunday. And we have on amazing scientists, physicians, lawyers, advocates, parents. And we’re really trying to raise the bar. We also have chapters at the state level in many states. So come check out Children’s Health Defense. If you don’t know about us, we would love to have you come join.
Mary Holland: Join the CHD family and we will try to lead you towards the truth and to help defend children’s health and advance children’s
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you are a phenomenal resource and with education podcasts and absolutely everything. And Mary, I thank you so much for all that you are doing for our children for every day that you get up and you carry on that mission. And may you be blessed in every way. And I’m going to see you again. OK. Have a great day. Thanks.
Mary Holland: You got it. Thanks so much, Cathy.
