Cathy Meehan: Today, we’re tackling a topic that affects every one of us, whether we realize it or not. It’s the power of messaging and how public opinion is shaped. I like to call it the business of influence. My special guest is Sherry Syence, and she is an award-winning journalist, a media strategist, and the founder of Rethinking Health. Sherry spent her life just helping organizations to really shape their message. Which influences public understanding and hopefully drives change. And today we are going to talk about how some of these health narratives are formed when it comes to advertising and public opinion. We’re specifically going to talk about some organizations like the Ad Council and how other large-scale public awareness campaigns literally changed the way people fall in line like sheep. During COVID, we have to understand that we are impacted by messaging thousands of times every single day. We have billboards, we have television commercials, we have ads that pop up on our computer screen. You might be scrolling through social media and you’re getting all kinds of feeds based on your algorithm. The crazy thing was what happened during COVID, people. How many people literally lined up like sheep, didn’t question the narrative, and went directly to get a vaccination so that they could make everyone else safe. What a lie. What do we need? We need an alternative. We need a place for trusted health resources, and we need to create some critical thinkers out there. Well, that’s exactly what Sherry has done. with rethinking.health. So please let’s get started and let’s welcome Sherry.
Cathy Meehan: Hello everyone and welcome to this edition of the Meehan Mission Podcast. And I have my dear special friend Sherry Syence. And Sherry has been in this what I call business of influence for decades. She is the professional to go to and she’s been helping organizations with their messaging, how to get it out, how to influence decisions. So, Sherry, welcome to the show.
Sherry Syence: Thanks so much for having me, Cathy. It’s a pleasure to be here with you.
Cathy Meehan: Well, I was so excited that you agreed to be on the podcast because, you know, we met during basically during the COVID years and all when all of this advertising’s going on and you see this like message and everyone is like whether fearful or seeking information. But I found it really interesting that people literally were able to be, you know. marched like sheep into lines when it came to getting your COVID vaccination or standing six foot you know distance or wearing a mask. And, you know, this public messaging and these campaigns, why are some of them so effective? What were they doing?
Sherry Syence: Well, that’s a great question. And I think each campaign, I’ll call it, is is really different. But when it comes to COVID, I mean, that was a public health emergency. And our government officials worked hand in hand with big tech, online communities, and what I believe was sold. Was fear, right? And that’s really what was a big motivator of getting people to stand six feet apart and to get vaccinated. using fear as the major psychological motivator of the campaign. But it’s a lot more complicated than that.
Cathy Meehan: Yes.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah. Yeah, it really is. you know, I I feel like they a lot of times, you know, their goal, I guess, was to change people’s minds in whatever direction they were going. And I want to take this to a broader thing of just advertising in general, because really that’s your specialty. Because it seems like advertising’s goal is to get people to change their minds, right? Or get them to going into a a new direction. And What type of things do companies or organizations use when they are trying to change direction of a mind besides things like fear? I mean, give me some background information on exactly how advertising campaigns work.
Sherry Syence: Okay, another really good question. And none of them are exactly alike and I like to think of it instead of just advertising messaging as well because it really it’s advertising in messaging and PR that work in tandem to shape behavior and and that is what I realized after spending all of my time in communications in one area or the other. I told you I started out as a broadcast journalist and then I grew up in an ad agency household. My mom had a very big ad agency in the DC area. I spent a lot of time in there. I worked in broadcasting, I worked in her agency, then I went out on my own and started working in corporations and then eventually started my own consultancy. And so whether it’s an ad or whether it’s corporate messaging or a PR campaign, there are underpinnings that drive them all. And it is the messaging. With the ads, most of the ads that we see. Are really designed to drive consumption and to drive certain behaviors, but but predominantly to drive consumption. So, or sales, that’s another thing, but they really go hand in hand.
Cathy Meehan: So when you work with an organization, do they typically and I I’m just using this for an example. I know that I am, I have an organization, I have a clinic, and I work with a marketing company and I try to get them to help me sell my product. So they ask me all kinds of questions on like who my audience is, what type of sales I’m, you know, hoping for. and all of these standard, you know, markers and goals and everything. And I have to tell you, it is not that easy when it comes to if you want to call it, you know, creating that message. What types of things do you ask clients when they’re trying to pull out you know, what is their, what is their message that they want to sell? And then how do you turn that into like an ad campaign?
Sherry Syence: Well, those are sort of two different things because when I work with clients, it’s a little bit different than perhaps other marketing or advertising or communication consultants might. So I really tap into what is your biggest challenge? Who are you trying to serve? Who’s your, you know, your target audience, your stakeholders, what are your differentiators? What types of things have you been doing that that have been working for you? What hasn’t been working? And then I look at at the communications, and that’s really where all of these separate areas converge, is they’re all external communications, the way you’re reaching different audiences. And so when it comes to advertising, We’re going up a couple of levels, right? The way that that your clinic might advertise is very different than the way a Fortune 100 or 500 company might advertise. And these industries, they’re spending billions and they’re doing it around the clock. So there is a big difference.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, well, it I was just thinking the same. Yeah, I wish I had that advertising budget for it for a small clinic. But you know, the other thing is when you talk about their advertising like around the clock, that just made me think of social media and how social media also influences people’s decisions plus the algorithms. And I I’ll tell you, I think it’s it’s almost overwhelming. some of the messages that I get when I’m just scrolling and and everything. And and I feel like I’m gonna go back to COVID and kind of step backwards a little bit because that messaging for COVID when it came to fear and when it came to what that message was, which was we had to get vaccinated, we had to wear masks, we had to, you know, separate each other by six feet. I feel like there had to have been like this table or conference table of people sitting around this that came out with that messaging. And I mean, what’s behind that big tech corporate advertising when they have a message that big to get out to everyone? Who who dictates those?
Sherry Syence: Well, I mean, again, a good question. So those dictates or mandates came from the government and also state governments, but interestingly, what I found out through looking at the Ad Council. Is that they had a group called the COVID Collective and they engaged about 300 program partners to get the message out. And I initially thought that they did that just because of COVID, but actually they have ongoing institutional stakeholders who are their program partners, like Google and the AMA and DARPA. so they utilized their vast, vast network to influence behavior and created messaging and ads that were very sophisticated and they and a lot of them used influencers and leaders to get those messages out.
Cathy Meehan: Can you step back just a little bit and actually tell our audience what is the Ad Council? Because I’ve heard that term before, but I’m not sure exactly it what is the Ad Council.
Sherry Syence: Sure. So the Ad Council is a nonprofit organization that was formed in the 40s initially as a war council, then it changed its name to the Advertising Council. But really, what it is, is it’s a coalition of institutional stakeholders. And their their message is we convene the best storytellers to educate, inspire, and uplift. they are the same group that in the 40s created Smokey the Bear. and that has been an ongoing campaign. In the 50s, they had campaigns to convince the public to get the polio vaccine. And they’ve done other campaigns as well, like friends don’t let friends drive drunk. They they do a lot of emergency disaster preparedness. And so they partner with industry and with the government to get different messages out. And and they’re across all spectrums, not just health.
Cathy Meehan: It I mean, it sounds like some of those things were only for the better of humanity, right? You know, to create awareness. I remember Smokey the Bear growing up and I guess he’s still out there. But I think, you know, really when it came to COVID that they really were gosh, they were so powerful in organizing the message and I guess, you know, all of the people or the tentacles, if you want to call it that, that came out under them. I personally feel that, you know, it really caused a lot of distrust once COVID was washed away. and now that we’re seeing all of the damage, whether it’s, you know, people were harmed, the fact that, you know, masks never did work in the first place, Doctor Fauci, and you knew that. whether it was, you know, are vaccines safe and effective, now that’s starting to, you know, implode upon themselves. They’ve really seems to have lost trust. How do consumers distinguish between when they’re being educated on good things, but whether they’re being persuaded? I mean, how do we decipher what’s good for us when they’re just advertising what’s best for them?
Sherry Syence: Well, that’s another great question. I mean, all of these are very, very nuanced areas. And it takes a very, you know, sometimes sophisticated, you know, level of understanding to know what’s driving a message and whether something is a marketing slogan or a fact. And so you take safe and effective that. Is a marketing slogan. That is not a fact. And so it’s really up to every person to do extensive research and not just take the messages that they’re hearing and say, okay. But I mean when I when I say it’s complicated, so the the point is really, I mean, you can look at it a couple of ways. And when I bring up the Ad Council and how effective they are, it’s really the fact that they do use advertising to basically have creative content to drive behaviors. And so that’s the power of advertising and messaging is it is used to drive behaviors. So
Cathy Meehan: Yeah. Well, I I think really what you hit on was people need critical thinking skills. So whatever you’re told, don’t believe it or you know, figure out what your source is. But going back to critical thinking skills, which I don’t think we have enough people using their brains. We really don’t. And you know, even our children are, I I believe a lot of them are program programmed. through the public education system to sit down, pay attention, follow rules, and, you know, go with the crowd. And I don’t know, what do you think about that?
Sherry Syence: Well, I spent a lot of time in my children’s, you know, elementary school when they were younger. Some of the so much time, in fact, some people thought I actually worked there, but you know, and and I saw how
Cathy Meehan: Okay.
Sherry Syence: The kid, I mean, wonderful, loving staff, beautiful sweet school with a strawberry patch outside and chickens. But I also watched the way that they treated some of the kids and and I remember once I was going to have lunch with my kids in the lunchroom and we were walking down the hall and I was whispering something in my daughter’s ear, and she said, Mom It’s code zero, which meant you do not talk. You are quiet, you stand up straight, and you just, you know, sort of march like yes, march in line like you’re in the military. And I said, I’m your mother. Like I whispered back to her, I was like, I don’t care, I’m your mother. So they are sort of programming and conditioning kids and you know, again, it’s really a nuanced subject because
Cathy Meehan: In line. Yeah.
Sherry Syence: Excuse me, it’s it’s not just The ads, right? You can look at a singular ad, but it’s really the fact that we’re being hit with messaging. You you mentioned social media. We on average are being hit with about 10,000 messages a day. It’s it’s nonstop. And so when that’s all you see, hear, experience, when you get a message over and over and over again, it almost doesn’t even matter, Cathy, if it’s true. It it It penetrates your psyche and then you start to believe it as fact because you hear it, you see it, you experience it over and over and over again, 24-7, 365 days a year.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah. Yeah I rem
Sherry Syence: So you start to believe everything as truth, and you’re not really, some people are not really separating, okay, this is an ad, or this is a sophisticated message that was created by a PR professional. They don’t really have necessarily the ability to distinguish the two.
Cathy Meehan: You were talking about the repetition and just seeing the same thing over and over. And I recall back in my early days when I was a pharmaceutical rep, we really talked about how it took eight calls on a physician before you could change his prescribing habits. So that meant I had to visit that office eight times, have a conversation before I could even expect him to, you know, switch from product A to my product. And but that was, you know, really where that repetition came in. And I just had this flashback. I remember, remember the two weeks to flatten the curve? Isn’t that what it was? Two weeks to flatten the curve. And I, you know, I was home. Some of my kids were still at home at the time. And on the television, I just remember these ads that would come across. And it was just like a a bright screen with words. And that was it. But it was the same thing over and over. And
Sherry Syence: Yes, it was.
Cathy Meehan: my gosh. I just feel like now it’s like they are treating humans like robots, whether it’s the COVID message or whether it’s a message on, you know, my favorite things Mountain Dew, McDonald’s, and Krispy Kreme. You know, the more they can get that out in front of you, the more it just becomes, I don’t know, I guess normal behavior or whatever. And maybe that’s why I don’t have a TV anymore. So I can’t. Yeah.
Sherry Syence: Yeah, I mean, we we don’t have a TV and have not had one for over a decade. We don’t have one in our house. People are like, you’ve got to be kidding me. my my children have also never had fast food, but we’re we’re a different, a different kind of family. But when I do go someplace, like we go on a trip and I’ll go to a hotel and then you know, the kids will turn on the TV and then I’ll hear these ads and I’ll be like,
Cathy Meehan: Yeah. I don’t have one either. No.
Sherry Syence: Turn this off. It’s it’s it’s actually very jarring and it’s interesting because I used to be, you know, a radio news anchor and I would hear ads all the time. I was a DJ, I would hear ads, and now I hear ads and I’m like, turn this off because it it is, it’s jarring.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Cathy Meehan: Well, you know, I think it’s very important when we talk about critical thinking skills and you as a parent and for all the other parents out there, what are some things maybe that parents can do to help build their child’s critical thinking skills when it comes to what they see on social media or TV for those seeing TV or even even billboards, those types of things. How can parents help their children You know, develop those critical thinking skills.
Sherry Syence: Well, I think first of all, limiting the amount of time on social because you really Don’t I mean you most parents don’t have it depends on the age of the child, right? If you’re talking about a younger child, you can have pretty good control over what those kids are looking at and for how long. But I I think there I think parents do need to be a lot more involved regardless of whether a kid is eight or sixteen. Excuse me, what what are or what are my kids, you know, looking at? So that’s one thing is actually limiting social media exposure and and and limiting TV because content, that’s the whole thing. It’s like with Google, you can pull up good content or you can pull up bad content. And it’s really It really takes a lot of discernment to understand like what is trustworthy and what is not. But I think it also encouraging reading and and also not necessarily taking everything you hear at face value as the absolute truth, because everybody has their absolute truth, right? But there’s variations of truth. And so so I think I think that’s a really important part of critical thinking is you
Cathy Meehan: Hm. Very important.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Sherry Syence: Using your own judgment and your own discernment and and and doing some research and not just accepting what authority figures tell you is the fact. And I’m not
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Sherry Syence: trying to convince anybody to not listen to authority or to not listen to their teachers. But if you hear something and it doesn’t sound right to you or you have questions, ask questions or do your own research. So many people, as you know, let’s take medicine, they go to their doctors and they have a 10, 12 minute appointment, and there’s not really a lot of time in there for an in-depth discussion. And so people leave with
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Sherry Syence: a pill or prescription and they don’t ask questions. and so so they’re not really doing good research is, you know, is this the best thing for me or is this the best thing for my kid? Because we are so rushed and we live in such a fast-paced environment. And a lot of that too has to do with, you know, this convenience culture that we live in and all the quick fixes that are that are out there as well.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah. Well, especially when it comes to medicine, I know that, you know, people talk about where your message comes from. When your message is coming from a physician who is a person of authority, you expect them to have already done the research, which I I, you know, you’re talking to Cathy, so of course I’m gonna bring up vaccinations. When my children were growing up. You know, I went to the pediatrician, I respected their authority. I had assumed they knew everything about the vaccinations. So I didn’t even question it when it came to vaccinating our children. And it’s, you know, that’s that’s why I just wish people would share more knowledge because I always say if somebody would have just said, Hey, before you go to the pediatrician, have you ever researched vaccines? I wish somebody would have just asked me if I researched them and I would have been like, No, I don’t need to. And if that person would have just said, well, you might want to, and here’s some resources. and and that just goes, you know, I’m kind of maybe a little bit off topic, but I just want to get that out there. That to help other people become critical thinkers by giving them, you know, questions like, have you thought about this or have you looked into this? And that might be, you know, in raising children. when there’s a commercial that comes, you know, along the TV or whatever, well, maybe sit down with your child on, well, how can we really dig into that and teach them how to research or and teach them how to question? But we really, really need more critical thinkers in the entire population and at every age. And I think that would that’s also gonna help lessen this division that we have because we know That a lot of the programming is designed to divide people. And it’s rather than having people debate and respect one another’s opinions, it’s really just designed to divide us and to hate one another. And so I really think that we do need more critical thinkers to go from that. So that being aside, what I really want to get into, Sherry, is what you’re up to now.
Cathy Meehan: And that is rethinking health, because we can talk about all of these problems when it comes to the messages and the advertising and how they’re programming people, but we need an alternative. And I do want to thank you and I will let everybody know that I am on the board with Rethinking Health with Sherry and it is a phenomenal, phenomenal organization. So Sherry, would you also please just tell everybody a little bit, you know, how you came up with the idea to create your own Rethinking Health and how’s that mission going?
Sherry Syence: Thanks so much, Cathy, and I really appreciate you being a part. Of my organization and help leading the way for a new way of thinking. And that’s what we’re really interested in is, you know, we talked about the Ad Council, and and the Ad Council covers a lot of different areas, as I said, from transportation to health to emergency preparedness. And we are a little bit different. We are focused exclusively on health and what What my vision was when I created this nonprofit is realizing that we really had a problem with our messaging. And so we have, as I said, nonstop messaging 24-7 telling us, you know, what to buy, what to think, what to wear, you know, what to be afraid of, and even what’s normal. And a lot of these are very sophisticated ad campaigns. But what What really struck me is that almost none of these messages were designed to make us any healthier. So I came up with this inspiration to start rethinking health, to use advertising and media and messaging to change not just behaviors, but the way people look at health, as not. A quick fix, not a diagnosis and not a prescription, but as a mindset. Are you familiar with that word, mindset?
Cathy Meehan: I am, I am. And I’m also liking because you are encouraging people to think, which is creating those critical thinkers. When that’s really brilliant, brilliant.
Sherry Syence: Yeah, and so the thing of it is, is people okay, some people love to be told what to do, right? But that’s not what we are trying to do. What we are trying to do is to educate people and inspire them and empower them and to Show them different things and have them make up their own mind because they’re told, you know, don’t question your doctor, don’t ask questions, don’t do research. My question back is, why not? Why not ask those questions? So it’s really, it’s so important that each person, look, there’s no one size fits all anything in this world. It’s up to each person to decide what is best for him or her.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, no, I I agree wholeheartedly on that. And that’s what I love about rethinking health. And it really it it puts the focus on the people to, you know, kind of look at their own health. And I think do you you have some slides to share with us to kind of help walk us through? I would love for you to share those and because it also gives a great example.
Sherry Syence: Yeah, I would I would absolutely love to.
Cathy Meehan: Of of what’s going on, so I’ll let you take it over from there.
Sherry Syence: Yeah, so rethinking health is a non profit. And we really want to transform public health, not just through advertising and media, but also as a big cultural initiative. And that’s another difference between what the Ad Council is doing and what we want to do. The Ad Council is focused on singular behaviors. And while we want to use advertising and media to change behaviors, we’re also hoping for a big cultural shift. And I’ll I’ll I’ll get to that in just a few minutes. So This is the pharmaceutical industry, and they’re spending about $36 to $40 billion. That’s what they’re poised to spend this year, on marketing and advertising. And it’s very interesting. Not all of that is direct to consumer. A good portion of that is spent influencing doctors. And so you have an industry that is influencing consumers and influencing physicians and institutions. So it’s almost is like a double whammy.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah. Well, I wanna note there that, you know, when I was in pharmaceuticals and it was it’s been years, probably, goodness, around twenty-seven-ish years, almost thirty years ago. And I remember that our company, it was then it was Schering-Plough, and we had a product called Claritin, which I’m sure many of you have heard of, and we were one of the very first commercials. on television when they decided to let pharmaceutical companies, you know, you know, advertise to the public. And we were like so excited. We were like, yay, we’re gonna have commercials. The, you know, consumers gonna run into their doctor’s office and ask for Claritin, and everything’s gonna be great. And if you guys remember that far back, if you’re old enough, Joan Lunden was our spokesperson. So we found an influencer and She did a television commercial for us. In fact, several of them. Never did we realize the slippery, slippery slope that we were on. But the other part, which you mentioned, was not only were we educating the consumer and the, you know, hopeful patient, but we were also using that advertising to get our face in front of the doctor. Because you remember I said that it would take us an average of eight calls to a physician to get them to remember our product. Well, by putting it on television, if the doctor is going home at night and he’s watching the news or whatever, Claritin commercials are gonna come across. So he’s gonna get that recognition there of Claritin. And just like if you if you watch TV nowadays and you know, sporting events are sponsored by Pfizer, or you know, you’ve got these daytime television shows sponsored by a pharmaceutical company. So the media use of like television ads and the amount of money which you just said thirty six to forty billion dollars and that’s annually that’s outrageous. Yeah.
Sherry Syence: Th that is annually and that does not include lobbying and the pharmaceutical industry spends, you know, almost half a billion now. On on lobbying that’s separate. But the interesting thing, if you look at this slide, Cathy, since the year 2000, the pharmaceutical industry has more than doubled what it’s spending on marketing and advertising. And our prescription drug spending has quadrupled just about. So we have more marketing, which translates into more medication. Advertising works. If it did not work,
Cathy Meehan: goodness. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Goodness. Yes.
Sherry Syence: These corporations would not be spending billions of dollars to use it as a tool to drive consumption and behavior. So the next industry is
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Sherry Syence: The food and beverage industry, they’re spending about 14 billion every year advertising fast food, junk food, candy, sugary drinks. most of these ads, my research found, are aimed at children. Excuse me, and not just children, but Black and Hispanic children. So if you’re a black or Hispanic child, you are about three times more likely to see an ad for any of these highly processed food products and soft drinks as if you’re white. And so it really is, you’ve heard with a marketing background, like who’s your target market? That’s the first thing everybody wants to know. This really is a systemic targeting because those communities have higher
Cathy Meehan: Wow. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sherry Syence: incidences of diabetes, obesity, and other food-related illnesses that actually are a leading cause of death in this country. So we should all be much, much more concerned about our obesity rates than we are. And there is a direct correlation between what people are putting in their bodies and our obesity epidemic. And it is an epidemic.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Cathy Meehan: Yes, yes.
Sherry Syence: So if you look at this slide, it’s the same thing. Since 2000, the amount that’s being spent on food advertising has about doubled. And I just picked because there’s so many different categories, I picked packaged food sales, but those have gone up about two and a half times. So they go hand in hand. And again, more marketing, more junk food consumption. We are up to about $1.2 trillion in sales for packaged foods every year. It’s an astronomical amount. It’s an astronomical amount. I also found out that, you know, McDonald’s, you you were mentioning sporting events. So all of these organ like organizations, Coke is doing FIFA, you know, the
Cathy Meehan: my goodness.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Sherry Syence: They they are really advertising heavily. And so with fast food, I think the stat I found is that on any given day, about 30% of the population eats fast food. But in a given week, it’s 80%, supposedly, of the US population is eating fast food, an astronomical amount.
Cathy Meehan: People, we gotta stop that. We gotta stop that. Yes. No. No.
Sherry Syence: We do, and this is not meant to shame anybody, but when you look when you look at how we’re doing, you know, you look at our health scorecards, it’s not good. We have a very, very sick population.
Cathy Meehan: Right. And also, I mean, it you’re right, it’s not to shame anybody because what most people don’t realize, and they they just they just think that food is not going to be poisonous or food is not going to be hurting their system. But now that we are starting to see, you know, the dyes are harmful. Some of the ingredients are even carcinogenic. I mean When you look at all of these things that are in our products, people are just eating them, not even thinking about what it’s gonna do to their health. And so that’s again where we need some more critical thinkers. And if people would just start reading their labels because your food is directly influencing your health. So I’ll let you keep going. Sorry about that. Yep.
Sherry Syence: Absolutely. And and one one good common sense piece of advice I’ve heard is if You read a label and you can’t pronounce something that’s on it or you don’t know what it is, you shouldn’t buy it. And so when I go grocery shopping with my kids, look, we don’t eat a perfect diet. But when they say, Mom, can we get this? And I’ll say, Look at the label. And sometimes they put it in the shopping cart, and sometimes they have to put it back on the shelf. So, really, really important. So, another big advertiser, Cathy, is the Modern Ag Alliance. And this is an industry.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah. Good good call. Good call.
Sherry Syence: Coalition that was started by Bayer. And the interesting thing is not so much the the the issue of glyphosate and whether It’s good for the environment or bad for the environment. And we have so much evidence showing that it’s harmful to the environment and harmful to human health. But they too now are engaging in advertising and using campaigns to reach farmers and to reach the public to tell them: hey, without our product.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Sherry Syence: You’re not going to be able to eat. We are providing a crop protection tool. And so this is a very nuanced ad campaign and PR campaign. And this was not a spontaneous grassroots coalition. This is openly an organization that was started by Bayer Monsanto. So they, you know, you can see the ads up on the screen.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Sherry Syence: When farmers lose, families pay the price. And so they’re also heavily engaged in lobbying. And they are using these ads very effectively to change public opinion and to change farmers’ opinions and consumers’ opinions. And it’s working. Advertising works. And so that’s one of the ideas behind rethinking health is we want to use ads to drive healthier behaviors. That’s what we want.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah. Well, you know, it’s really interesting. I want to stay on this whole glyphosate issue because if many people don’t know, Monsanto is the maker of glyphosate, and they were purchased by Bayer. And you can correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure. So, and then after Bayer purchases them, Monsanto is losing these court cases because glyphosate causes cancer. It is a fact. And so I guess what you’re telling me here is that they created this modern or Bayer created this modern ag alliance to protect their name because people are starting to retaliate or not purchase glyphosate. And so this is a case of where when you hear advertising, you really need to put on your critical thinking skills because Who are they advertising for and who are they trying to protect? Because to me it sounds like Bayer created this to protect their own sales. When I want to go back to the whole thing is why not just make a better product? But you can give me your two cents on that. Mm-hmm.
Sherry Syence: Well, absolutely. I mean, I have lots of of of different opinions on this, but when when corporations have their profits, you know, When when when they’re at stake, that’s when they start launching PR campaigns. And then if you have an integrated campaign, you will create core messaging and then you’ll weave that messaging and you’ll use that message with your lobbying. You’ll use it in your print ads, you’ll use it on TV. You’ll, you’ll, you’ll even weave it into the scientific literature. And so it is very, very persuasive. 100%.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah. Yeah. When I said why don’t just make a better product, but yeah.
Sherry Syence: So well, I mean, I think there are better products out there and I think people People are using them. But the sad part is that we, when we go to the grocery store, we don’t always have a say on what’s sprayed on our products. And I actually don’t think, I think if I went and just did a random, you know, man on the street tally, I don’t necessarily think that everybody is even aware that there’s harmful pesticides sprayed on the produce that they eat. But yes, why don’t we why don’t we use safer products? Because I think in this
Cathy Meehan: I agree.
Sherry Syence: instance you’d be crushing an industry. So there’s your answer.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So what yeah, what’s what some solutions there? That’s what we need. We need solutions.
Sherry Syence: Yes. Well, my solution is Rethinking Health to create campaigns that really educate people on these different topics and that that inform them of what’s you know what’s being put in their food. we want to launch campaigns across all different areas of of health. So Which I will show you some of our campaigns in in just a moment. We we talked about the Ad Council, and they are another big advertiser that is using creative content to influence people’s health decisions. And they do have partners like the AMA and Google. And as I mentioned, their their efforts go back to the 50s with polio with health and They were very, very influential during COVID with their COVID Collective, and they made these heartfelt ads using US presidents and using country music singers to get the American public to get vaccinated. And I’ll share a little snippet of
Video Clip Shared Here
Sherry Syence: So this commercial also featured Jimmy Carter. and and these commercials worked. they were very successful. And and that is a common tactic in advertising is to use influencers. So here’s here’s another influencer. This is Travis Scott.
Cathy Meehan: Mm.
Cathy Meehan: Mm.
Sherry Syence: McDonald’s came out with their own meal in his name. What I heard is that he was paid $20 million, $5 million by McDonald’s, and then another $15 million in merchandise. I think, I think he even had some, there was some chicken McNugget pillow, but it’s an astronomical amount of money. And look, everybody, you know, deserves to make a living. But what I want to see is I want to see influencers. Who are going out and promoting products or things that create good health and not just lining their pockets so they can do whatever. Because there’s, there’s, I mean, look, some of the fast food chains are doing things, they’re they’re carrying some healthier food items, but it is our way of life. It’s it’s just a common thing to eat fast food. It’s our normal. And that’s another thing that I really want rethinking health to do.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Sherry Syence: is to shift how we look at normal. I don’t really think, I mean, I think we’ve talked about this before in other conversations. What’s normal and common doesn’t mean it’s quote unquote normal. And I don’t, you know, I don’t think it’s really healthy for anybody to drive around in their car like eating, you know, sloppy fast food dripping on them in in a in a you know rush every single day. That that
Cathy Meehan: Yes.
Sherry Syence: That cannot be good for the body. every once in a while, that’s look, people get to do whatever they want with their health. That should not be the standard. Food is food is, you know, supposed to provide nutrition, fuel the body.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yes.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, you know, and that goes back to the whole of reading food labels. Because when I was growing up, I ate McDonald’s and McDonald’s fries back then. It was potatoes, salt, and they were fried in tallow. If you look at the ingredients of McDonald’s French fries today, it’s nothing like that. And so that’s really where people don’t they They assume everything’s still the same. And, you know, why would a company be putting in processed chemicals or anything into my food that may have the potential to harm me? Well, I’ve got news for you people. The companies that are producing these types of foods are not looking at your health. They are looking at bottom line profits. It is money. that drives the ingredients that go into your foods. It’s they find the cheapest products, the easiest way to create the product, package the product, market the product, and get it into you, the hands of the consumer. They could care less if it has aspartame in it or if it’s got, you know, red dyes. They don’t care what’s in it, the majority of the companies, they’re looking at the bottom, you know, profit line. So there’s my rant on that. Go this yeah. Mm-hmm.
Sherry Syence: Absolutely, you’re a hundred percent right. And when you talked about Why aren’t they using, you know, when you’re talking about Bayer Monsanto, why aren’t they using healthier options? It’s because they have a supply of these chemicals and they have to get rid of them. It’s what they have. And so we don’t have time today to go into it, but there’s so many things that are part of our normal, you know, standard of living that that are put in products because they’re available and they’re really not necessary. It’s because we have a big stock supply of them.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
Sherry Syence: That’s the answer. So my my vision, Cathy, is to have These campaigns everywhere that people are, and that if you go to a ball game or a concert, instead of seeing ads for McDonald’s and Bojangles’ and Heineken and Doritos, you will see ads that actually inspire people to be healthier and that empower them and that educate them. We we can do better. I want to see ads that are health focused to be just as visible as the ads driving consumption. And that really was the inspiration, one of the inspirations behind starting rethinking health. Because if advertising can drive you know consumption of unhealthy products, why not use it to drive consumption of healthy products and to promote health?
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, I love that. Love it.
Sherry Syence: Yeah, so I wanted to quickly share some of our campaigns that our team developed. And we we touched on this. An apple a day keeps the doctor away, except when it’s covered in toxic pesticides. And it’s a very simple ad, and it’s it’s designed to draw people in and make them a little bit curious, right? We’re not telling people what to do, what not to do. It’s here’s a message and you can learn more by going to the Rethinking Health website, where we will have a very large and comprehensive resource hub.
Cathy Meehan: Not bad.
Sherry Syence: Of articles and links where people can actually read and do their own research and learn as much as they want to.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, love that.
Sherry Syence: Yeah. And so here’s the same ad on social. And and I’m just showing this so that people get an idea. You talked about the repetition. And a lot of times, you know, business owners I know or companies or organizations, they’ll put out an ad and they’re like, okay, we’re done. And you can’t do that. You you have to have the repetition and you really have to have it across all formats. So this is the same quote unquote ad. It’s really a PSA on social media. And it’s it’s reaching out to parents and saying, hey You know, the apple you put in your kids’ lunchbox could be covered in pesticide residues, and one of them is banned in the EU. And so you can help your family’s health by buying organic over conventional and go to the website to learn more. And apples really are, they’re such a big staple in children’s diets. And the other thing I realize, Cathy, is that not every family can afford to eat organic. It’s really, really expensive.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Sherry Syence: And so we’re going to have tips on how you can eat healthy on a budget, how you can make the best choices possible. And then here is the same ad on a billboard. And again, there’s always a call to action. Learn about reducing harmful exposures at rethinking health. So very simple. We want to reach people in a way that is breaking through all of the clutter. Because when I talked about the 10,000 messages a day, we are we are bombarded with podcasts and social media and newsletters.
Cathy Meehan: Mm.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Sherry Syence: letters and Substacks and and so this is a very, very simple and easy way to reach people through through mass advertising. So, this is our next campaign, our mental health campaign. And I feel like this is so important because there’s so many people right now who are having mental health issues and they’re really, really struggling. And so, what I want people to know is that there’s more than a pill from your doctor. This says when it comes to depression, pharmaceuticals are not the only solution. And so the idea is not to tell people not to take SSRIs.
Cathy Meehan: Yes. Mm-hmm.
Sherry Syence: or benzodiazepines. The idea is to let people know your mental health is not just whether you take a pill or not. You need to look at so many other aspects. How much sunlight are you getting? What kind of stress are you under? Are you getting exercise? Like, yes.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Cathy Meehan: Yes. Mm-hmm. Are you exercising? You know, exercising has been proven over and over and over again to reduce the amount of depression and anxiety. Yes. Mm-hmm.
Sherry Syence: Right. And and so there’s so many other things like caffeine and alcohol, and are you in toxic relationships? And again, this stress. What kind of stress are you under? And these are not necessarily conversations that are happening in the doctor’s office. Somebody goes in, they’re depressed, they walk away with a prescription or some samples, and boom, that’s it.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Sherry Syence: There’s not really a bigger discussion. And I’m not going to get into it now, but you know, these drugs have a lot of side effects. And so they are not to be taken lightly. And what I want people to do is to talk to their doctor about these drugs. I’m not telling people not to take them, but what I want them to know is you do have options out there. And even if you are taking psychotropic drugs, you need to look at other factors in your life because yeah, it’s it’s just so
Cathy Meehan: Right. Right. Well, which I also, you know, one a lot of times when I’m talking to people, I talk about how the healthcare system that most of us have grown up with and that we’re used to, they are really designed for disease management. So if they get a typical depressed patient in the door, the their go-to is an antidepressant.
Sherry Syence: So important.
Cathy Meehan: And they’re not really talking about some of the other things that they can do that might help with their depression, which could be exercise and diet and stress factors and all of those other things. They’re just looking to push pills. And to me, you know, part of informed consent is risks, benefits, and alternatives. And one of the things I don’t think that, you know, a lot of doctors do is say, by the way. We’re into disease management and you’re going to be on this medication for the rest of your life. They don’t say, you know, we there’s other things we can do to help maybe reduce the amount of medication or things like that. And so that’s just my blurb on a lot of, you know, prescription medications. the doctors aren’t critical thinkers. They don’t want the patient to be a critical thinker. And when you have this type of messaging from rethinking. That just encourages that person who might be suffering from depression to go to rethinking.health, find some alternatives, and find things that they can discuss with their physician or decide to find a different physician that will talk with them and converse and help, you know, enhance their critical thinking skills. So
Sherry Syence: Absolutely. And part of this again, Cathy, is a cultural thing. Everybody is looking for a quick fix and a quick solution. And that’s what’s being sold. Here’s a pill. It’s going to instantly, people think it’s like waving, you know, a magic fairy wand. Poof, you will feel better. And they’re not right. And and so the sad thing is.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah. Yeah. I know I sold I used to sell those things. Yeah.
Sherry Syence: Is that because of the the the culture that we live in, a lot of people are not really willing to put the work into cultivating a healthy lifestyle. They just want the the the pill or the quick fix and that that’s you know their mental health, their body. I mean, look at the astronomical numbers of people who are on GLP-1s now. And I have a friend who I love dearly. He has non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, and he said he couldn’t Wait to to fail his sleep study. So they would put him on a GLP-1. Insurance would pay for it. And I’ve talked to him about healthier eating, but he’s so much more excited about the GLP-1. And look, that’s a whole nother conversation. But he does not want to, you know, embrace, like even try to clean up his diet. And look.
Cathy Meehan: That’s a whole nother yeah. Yeah.
Sherry Syence: Medicine can be an amazing thing, but it is not the cure-all and it should not be, in my opinion, the first line of defense for every single issue. So
Cathy Meehan: Yeah, so true. So true. Yeah.
Sherry Syence: Okay, here’s here’s our next campaign. And it’s our youth mental health campaign. It’s the the newest one. And I decided to develop this because we have such a big problem in our country with depression and with youth depression and mental health and suicide. I have a number of friends in my community here who have lost children in the past year. Last week I was out and ran into an old
Cathy Meehan: Mm. Yes.
Cathy Meehan: Hm. So
Sherry Syence: Acquaintance who works at a local high school and told me about how a junior came in, finished up his finals for the year, and then he went home and he took his own life. And it’s really so tragic. And it’s a complicated issue, but there are so many things that we can be doing. And one of those is staying more connected to our children. And so we want to sort of serve as a bridge between.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Cathy Meehan: Yes.
Sherry Syence: Between some of the organizations that are out there and the public, and and to get, you know, not only be a resource for children, but also for parents who need to learn the signs when when something is off with their kids. And look, we’re all really, really busy. And it’s so easy. You know, you see somebody, hey Cathy, how’s it going? And it’s like, what do you say? I’m fine, but but.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Cathy Meehan: Yes.
Cathy Meehan: I’m fine. I’m fine.
Sherry Syence: But that’s not always really what’s going on. And so we need to, again, we need to to to to be, you know, curious and actually not just accept what’s told to us at face value, but use, you know, our investigative skills and and just stay on top of things. So
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah.
Sherry Syence: And depression can look, some people don’t even realize they are depressed. It’s like it can overtake you if you have clinical depression. It can affect your whole, you know, way of thinking. And so it’s really up to not just parents, but people who are connected to other people to to stay in touch and to make sure they’re doing okay. So
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm. Yes. That’s a very important one.
Sherry Syence: Yeah, and so this is the final campaign that I have to share with you today. It’s our autism campaign. And I came out with this. We rather came out with this. It was in November of 2024. And when we did it, the number was one in 36. And so the incidence of autism continues to increase. And so we changed the ad. But what inspired this is not so much the increase in autism, but also Also, really, the need to show that autism is simply not, you know, that quirky kid on the HBO series. Yes, neurodivergent population is part of the spectrum, but we also have people on the other end of the spectrum who have profound autism who require 24-7 care. And a lot of those families feel excluded from society, and they’re also pretty much excluded from the media.
Cathy Meehan: Right.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Sherry Syence: it’s it’s not they’re they’re not really we’re not being shown what the true definition of autism is and what it really looks like so that is part of our goal as well is to educate people and to share more information about what it’s like to be on the autism spectrum for both individuals and their families and some of these children as you know they really have
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Cathy Meehan: Uh-huh.
Cathy Meehan: Yes. Mm-hmm.
Sherry Syence: Very complex medical diagnoses that require considerable medical care.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm. Yes. Love that.
Sherry Syence: Yeah. So this is the the final slide. This is Times Square, the Marriott Marquis. This billboard, I believe, stretches three city blocks. And this is where we want to be. Yeah, we want we want we want all of our campaigns to be visible, just like all of the other ads that are up there now, because people
Cathy Meehan: Wow. Goals. I love it. Goals. Yes.
Cathy Meehan: Yes. Mm-hmm.
Sherry Syence: Again, they need to be receiving these messages. it’s it’s it’s time to do away with all of the consumption-driven advertising and really shift our thoughts about health and what is good health and what’s normal and and and start transforming our health. And once we do that, and once we start, I believe, once we start changing what’s culturally normal and acceptable, our health is gonna follow. And also once we start becoming more.
Cathy Meehan: Very good.
Sherry Syence: Critical thinkers, we will make better decisions. I I firmly believe that.
Cathy Meehan: Yes. Yes. Yes. That’s the other goal. Become critical thinkers to make better decisions. Yeah.
Sherry Syence: Yes, and be the CEO of your own health. You talked about, don’t you have a slogan of being right. And so we want people to be the CEO of their own health. Don’t hand that power over to a doctor, to anybody else. You have that power. You are the biggest stakeholder in your your health journey.
Cathy Meehan: Yes, be the scientist of your own health. Yes.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Cathy Meehan: Mm. I love that.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm.
Sherry Syence: And and people need to realize that that yeah, sometimes bad things happen to people, right? They get a bad diagnosis, but you can have a a profound effect on your health by the way you choose to live your life every single day and the choices you make. So yeah.
Cathy Meehan: Yeah. Yes.
Cathy Meehan: Mm-hmm. I love that. I love that. Do you have a next slide or?
Sherry Syence: That is it. yes, this is the most
Cathy Meehan: There you go. Okay. Well, yeah. So I love that QR code. So for people that can use that and then or they can go to rethinking.health, right? Okay.
Sherry Syence: Yeah. And so what I wanna say about all of this is I I’ve talked about The billions that these industries are are spending. And it is it’s an astronomical sum of money. It is billions upon billions every single year to drive consumption and to drive behaviors. And so what we want to do, it is a very ambitious undertaking, and it is going to take considerable funds. And this is something that can benefit every single organization that’s involved in health. And so it’s really important. And I want people to be excited about this and to contribute to it because it’s going to lead to a healthier future for all of us and our families and our communities nationwide.
Cathy Meehan: Absolutely, absolutely. Sherry, I mean, the information that you’ve been given is so important to everyone. Cause like what I started out was, you know, the business of influence. I mean, everywhere you said 10,000 messages a day trying to influence our behaviors. And without the critical thinking skills, we are going to find ourselves lined up in a row to
Sherry Syence: Yeah.
Cathy Meehan: jump over a cliff or whatever it is that some big organization wants us to do. And we’ve seen how effective those ad campaigns are. And you know, if we don’t challenge them, if we don’t, you know, use critical thinking skills, we are just going to find ourselves where we were back in 2020, 2021, 2022. before people started really questioning and figuring things out. And so rethinking.health is truly a solution. It’s truly a solution. And I know that it takes money. It takes money. I know that. And I’m thinking when if they go to the QR code or rethinking.health, is there a donation page that people can find to help fund that?
Sherry Syence: There is. It’s it’s yes, yeah. We have a donate page and you know, I’m encouraging everybody I know. I don’t care if you give five dollars or five thousand dollars, but please give and and the first campaign we want to launch. nationwide is our youth mental health campaign. It’s so important. People are really, really struggling right now. And you know, a big part of this too, the message about our culture is we need to stop and we need to slow down and we really need to take a look at what’s in front of us. And I think it’s because we just we’re so busy and we’re just charging throughout our days and we’re taking in these messages. And and you talked about, you know, the the influence of advertising
Cathy Meehan: Yes, it is. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Cathy Meehan: Yes.
Sherry Syence: The power of messaging. So much of it, Cathy, is subliminal. And it’s very, very sophisticated. And I don’t really think I did it justice when I was talking about how effective these ads and ad campaigns and hearing from thought leaders and hearing from authority figures are at influencing what people think is the truth. And what I’m encouraging is not to be anti-industry or don’t respect authority. Look, everybody gets to do what they want. But Use some personal discernment and do your own research and and take some time to learn about things that are really going to benefit your health and your family’s health.
Cathy Meehan: That is perfect advice. I love it. I love it, Sherry. I love you. Thank you for all that you do. Thank you for all that you do. And I’m sure I’ll be seeing you again. And until then, if anybody has questions or they want to share this podcast with other people, please do so. Like and share. Do all those fun things to help the Meehan mission. And until the next time, everybody have a very blessed day. Thanks, Sherry.
Sherry Syence: I love you too, Cathy. You’re the best.
Sherry Syence: Thank you, Cathy.
